Why hate Mac but not Matco

[bobcatdan]

With so little love for mac now a days, why doesn't Matco seem to get picked on more? Now it's been about two years since I've been on a matco truck, but it seemed there was as much asian junk as mac. Matco pilars are all import. I almost bought half moon matco branded wrenches unit I saw china. Power tools same stuff mac has. Now I admitt mac's dealer support has sucked for 10 years and order something sometimes take for ever to get. Matco always seemed better at that. The 10 or 12 things mac still make themself are nice tools but, there is no way I going to pay mac tool price for the same tool ATD sells. I hate getting USA made tools warrantied for an imort replacement and Matco did that a lot more then mac ever did. Or am I just so far removed from matco to not know they are scraping the imports and returning to a USA made tools.

 

[noid]

Because mac actually had a large loyal customer base, and they let them down. Matco from the get go was never the level of quality mac was in its hay day, so people have nothing to be disappointed by.

 

[JeremyManning]

go mac go buy vintage and don't return

 

[tonydanzah]

i matco half moons i just bought saw usa

 

[Bran Diezel]

i matco half moons i just bought saw usa

the last time they were on sale BOGO they were china. i have them

 

[Roots]

If you Google a bit, you'll find that in the nineties to around ten years or so ago there was some corporate change of hands and Mac basically attacked their very own dealer network. Additionally, they attempted some major tom foolery with slipping asian imports in while stating that they were American. There were a LOT of lawsuits, which didn't turn out very well for Mac. There are business article quotes from the CEO of the time publicly admitting what a horrendous mistake it was to attack their partner/dealers and long-term customers as well. I'm not sure if Mac has ever recovered. Certainly, many people are still hesitant about the brand.

While Matco has also shifted a lot of production to Taiwan or teamed up with other manufacturers such as Witte, they never tried to be deceptive about it or attack their dealers and customers.

 

[fordbroncodave]

because mac clearly relabels foreign tools and claims them as their own

 

[nismomans13]

all my matco tools say u.s.a on them

 

[mrshaun]

Mac allied Tool Company = Matco
they used to be ONE.

 

[bobcatdan]

I'm just dissapointed when ever a quality tool company goes overseas, mac, matco, craftsman, visegrip, rigid. where does the list end?

 

[mrshaun]

unions and other BS then they pay even more in taxes etc to ship the stuff back then eat more stock because of poor QC.

 

[Roots]

unions and other BS then they pay even more in taxes etc to ship the stuff back then eat more stock because of poor QC.

Why the desire to bring political rhetoric into a tool discussion?

 

[nato]

Here's my take....
MAC[Simizer] screwdrives *bleh* Old red comfort grips were nice...when they weren't SLIPPING during use!!!!!!
MAC 30 tooth ratchets *Bleh* I would honestly need a rebuild about twice a month with standard use.
MAC rebadged Facom 72 Round heads, *Eh.....*
MAC Knuckle Saver combo's *Ugh...only brand of open-ended specially designed no-slips that seem to be wearing faster than any of my FD= and Opti-Torques*
MAC sockets.....*Eh, they're okay..pretty decent*
MAC NEWER Taiwan 'Cornwell' knock of torx/ allen drivers/bits....*PFFFFT, are you crazy?! I've never broken so many "S2 steel bits" in my life*

Most all newer **** from MAC is overseas stuff. Apples to apples, I come across more American made Matco tools then MAC. As of today, 2011, non-biased retort, all of my Matco wrenches, sockets, extensions and ratchets are superb in quality. My Mac sockets look beat for not being that old, my K/S wrench open-end gripping flats are now, well, flat..... Nothing has let me down yet. Not a single piece of shipped chrome or single cracked socket. Ratchets are excellent and hold up in strength to almost the next drive size. I know they're Danaher, but they're good, maker aside.
I could see, way before my time--I'm only 25 going on 26---how and why MAC was a good tool brand. I've got still, some of my grandfather's old Mac stcok from being a body man. I would actually deal respect to that era (around the 1930's) Looking through the 400+ page catalogs from Cornwell & Mac, I THINK that I see the most oversease goods.

I don't think I've picked up ANYTHING Mac within the past year.

 

[fordbroncodave]

i use to think of mac as one of the 4 brands i strictly would buy, now i can't seem to get rid of it. sort of lingering here and i would rather have snap on. plus i don't see my mac dealer once in 3 months

 

[wchamberlain]

It's a matter of personal preference, SO sources foreign tools, I recently picked up their 4 pc soft grip adj wrench set, made in Spain stamped right on them. I think SO is the last of the major tools companies to make most of there products in USA, as I stated it's per preference. I buy all 3 and haven't had a problem at all with any of my tools. In the past I have broken craftsman pro screwdrivers with the SO set I have no problems what so ever. So pick your poison, eventually they will be made in foreign countries due to cheaper labor costs and available materials. Hope this helps your dilemma.

 

[wornoutoldman]

all my matco tools say u.s.a on them

If you have the XL X-Beam ratching wrenches they are made by gearwrench not US.

 

[Toolhorder]

Most of Matco's hardline is USA made. They have stuff I like better than Snap on like the universal sockets so I buy from them.

 

[Fedwrench]

Dude, you need to search the archives. There is very little love for Matco on this board. I like Matco. I think their pinless impact swivel sockets are the best on the market. I like their proswing ratcheting wrenches with the fixed boxed end on one side and a fine tooth ratcheting boxed end on the other. I like the high vis marked chrome sockets. Their 60 and 88 tooth ratchets are great too. Most of my Matco tools are stamped USA. However, some of their tools are imported. Some of their ratcheting wrenches, ratchets, screwdrivers, and other tools are imported. There are shared platforms across the different branches of the Danaher tree. Use what you like and can afford. All that maters is that the tool doesn't let you down, that you like using it, and you're happy with it. After all, you bought the tools. No body really cares which brand of tools you use as long as you use them well and if they do, they should procreate themselves.

 

[Chadro]

Because mac actually had a large loyal customer base, and they let them down. Matco from the get go was never the level of quality mac was in its hay day, so people have nothing to be disappointed by.

I think this post sums it up nicely. From what I hear the oldtimers say, MAC used to make awesome tools and controlled as much of the tool market as Snap-On. They do sell a lot of imports these days and the dealers are as rare as unicorns in some areas. I still have a soft spot for some MAC tools so I throw a little money their way every now and again, just bought a MR5 ratchet as a matter of fact.

Matco is fine by me even though most of the Matco tools I own weren't made by them. I do love my Matco branded Witte screwdrivers and I really like my Matco prybars as well. I'm thinking of picking up a new set of wrenches and a 1/2 flex head ratchet, I think I'll go Matco this time as Snap_on dominates my ratchets/wrench collection.

 

[wafrederick]

Mac and Matco were together starting in 1946 and split in 1979.The older Mac catalogs were split in half for the tool lines.What I have been told,Stanley has been trying to dump Mac tools and never wanted Mac in the first place.Came pretty close a couple years ago,Danaher tools came pretty close to buying Mac from Stanley and the deal fell out.Anyone thinking Snap On is the biggest tool company is wrong.Danaher tools is the biggest tool company out there.Owns Matco,Allen,Gearwrench,GP,Armstrong,KD including making medical equipment used in Hospitals.

 

[ngk22r]

because mac clearly relabels foreign tools and claims them as their own

thats matco as well. I still cannot justify spending the high amount of money for rebranded gearwrench, craftman/danaher, otc, sunex tools, EZ-red, and IR.

Plus if I want to buy one of those brands, I just walk on the snap-on truck and my dealer opens up the RWD catalog and wa-la, the same tools that matco has their stamp on but for less money.

On top of that the financing of the matco tool box is insane as well.

 

[woody 73]

I seem to recall that Mac really screwed their own drivers and then thet started playing fast and loose with moving chinese products in and then calling it made in the USA.

It must be a case book study in *********** off a good name,that corporate greed/stupidity are to blame. I still feel that if they had a good team onboard they could bring back that company from the ground up.

Only time will tell which direction they take!

 

[Skin]

thats matco as well. I still cannot justify spending the high amount of money for rebranded gearwrench, craftman/danaher, otc, sunex tools, EZ-red, and IR.

Could say much the same about Snap-On -> Blue Point/Williams.

 

[dirtrider]

Like everyone else said Mac did some pretty unethical things to their dealers and customers alike. There used to be a website started by a former dealer telling in detail all the legal actions taken against Mac and describing many of their terrible policies, it was called mactoolssuck.com I think, it has since been taken down but may still be accessible through a web archive site. I think generally Matco is not criticized as much do to the much better business practices they have, yes Matco outsources and rebrands a lot of tools but I think that is more accepted by some people because of the way they present it. Even so Matco is not held in the same high regard of Snapon by most people, mainly because of the reasons listed above and also due to there tools being manufactured by Danaher, that makes Matco more of a tool distributer and tool brand more than anything. Many of Matco's tools closely resemble other Danaher brands but at a higher cost. Snapon is usually considered the best tool you can buy for a reason, Snapon is owned and manufactured by Snapon and most of there hard line is made in the USA still and there quality is the best.

 

[Wrenches of Death]

thats matco as well. I still cannot justify spending the high amount of money for rebranded gearwrench, craftman/danaher, otc, sunex tools, EZ-red, and IR.

Bingo! You hit the nail on the head. This is what it all basically boils down to as far as I'm concerned, for ALL brands.

WoD

 

[Wrenches of Death]

Could say much the same about Snap-On -> Blue Point/Williams.

Williams/Vulcan was a stand alone brand with a very good reputation for many decades prior to being bought by Snap-on. I'm still using a number of Williams SuperWrench's that my father purchased in the 50's and 60's. Good steel and a damn good satin finished chrome. All in all, a very good product on par with the best that the United States had or has to offer.

Sadly, I see that it looks like Williams has dropped their lower priced US made Vulcan branded line and replaced it with imports branded as Williams.

WoD

 

[ngk22r]

Could say much the same about Snap-On -> Blue Point/Williams.

But with blue-point (which is owned by snap-on, unlike matco who is owned by danaher..) it is significantly lower in price than snap-on regular line. Matco charges more than snap-on in most cases for the same kind of tool, but matcos tools are from either; gearwrench, craftman/danaher, otc, sunex tools, EZ-red, or IR.

Im not saying that matcos tools are a bad tool, but hell, if I am going to pay that much for a tool I dont want to know the same tool (just with the original makers stamping) is over at sears for a huge fraction of the price.

But if you are fine with paying that much for the danaher tool truck price, that is all on the person who choses to buy them.


Now about MAC, once a great tool company but now riddled with corporate B.S. .

 

[Skin]

But with blue-point (which is owned by snap-on, unlike matco who is owned by danaher..) it is significantly lower in price than snap-on regular line. Matco charges more than snap-on in most cases for the same kind of tool, but matcos tools are from either; gearwrench, craftman/danaher, otc, sunex tools, EZ-red, or IR.

Matco is the premier tool line for the Apex Tool Group much like Snap-On is the premier tool line for Snap-On incorporated. SO rebrands many many products right along with everyone else. Saying their catalog is wholly original is hardly correct. I'm not even sure what Sunex, EZ-red [which SO sells a lot of], and IR have to do with anything considering they're entirely seperate companies.

Many of SOs hardline tools share very similar appearances with Williams and Blue Point which is no different than Matco sharing some similarities with GW or Armstrong (Craftsman makes NO tools, they're made under contract by Apex).

I have hardly any Matco but even i'm not going to claim their tools are the same as what is offered in the Craftsman/GW catalog. Anyone with two eyes and a brain can see that plain as day that there are differences in things like socket/ratchet/wrench design and chrome quality by simply picking up the products and comparing them.

You could just as easily be saying that all Stanley and Proto tools are the same as MAC.

 

[ngk22r]

I have hardly any Matco but even i'm not going to claim their tools are the same as what is offered in the Craftsman/GW catalog. Anyone with two eyes and a brain can see that plain as day that there are differences in things like socket/ratchet/wrench design and chrome quality by simply picking up the products and comparing them..

This wrench made by gearwrench and also sold as a "matco" wrench with the stamp and all.

 

[Skin]

you're mistaken, that wrench is not made by gearwrench . Apex makes them and the only other distribution for them is via Craftsman in limited sizes. Matco is the only outlet that offers complete sets.

The GW twisted beam wrenches have no offset and are not reversibles and that style is unique to the GW brand.

If you're on a witch hunt i can assure you its not hard to find things that look the same that Apex makes. But you're deluding yourself if you dont think that some of the items offered in the Williams and BP line arent similar to SO. I guess i'm saying I dont quite get your logic in singling out Matco and ignoring the fact that Snap-On inc does the same thing.

And then i dont even see what it matters.

 

[Fedwrench]

This wrench made by gearwrench and also sold as a "matco" wrench with the stamp and all.

Matco is the premier tool line for the Apex Tool Group
You could just as easily be saying that all Stanley and Proto tools are the same as MAC.

Actually, the Craftsman ratcheting Cross Force wrench you're holding is made by Armstrong not Gearwrench. There is a Gearwrench version but, it's a lot thinner and lighter than the beefier Armstrong/Craftsman/Matco version.

Matco is NOT part of the Apex tool group. http://apextoolgroup.com/brands/index.cfm
That doesn't mean you won't find a rebadged tool from Apex on a Matco truck though.
There are many close similiarites between Proto and Mac tools.
You guys can argue about tool truck prices and tools forever but, the bottom line with a tool truck is that you're paying for service. They come to you, allow you to pay for the tools while you use them, and often have a wider selection of products than a regular store. Every tool truck rebrands tools and shares products from other lines. Get over it. If it bothers you, buy the rebadged tool from the OEM if you can get it. Nobody forces you to walk on a particular tool truck and spend your money but, if somone else does, it does not make them wrong.

 

[K5blazer83]

All I can say is I agree with everything FedWrench says. He definitely makes very valid points and backs them up with facts.

 

[Sterff]

It all comes down to what you like and don't like. At least Matco tools are stamped with the country where they are made....unlike Snap-on. Why would I want a chinese dual-80 anyway?

 

[johnsdeere850j]

Matco = Craftsman at twice the price. Pretty sure they are both made by Danaher probably same factory in china or somewhere. You're paying for the name is my opinion..... Except ratchets maybe, they are a little better than the cheapo teardrop craftsman ratchets.

 

[wafrederick]

Plus Matco and Craftsman do share parts in their breaker bars,the drive part is the same.If you break the drive part of a Craftsman breaker bar,go see a Matco dealer instead of going down to Sears to get the whole breaker bar replaced.Will replace the drive part.My Matco dealer told me this.

 

[digdug18]

Funny, I use Mac and Matco in the junk yard at work all day, they both work great, even if they are made in china or are rebranded or not. Some of the craftsman stuff is quality, but is getting worse over time. I've been using Lisle tools alot lately as well.

 

[gReves]

Mac seems as if they cant/wont keep up with advancing technology/needs. Whats Mac's fine tooth ratchet, a 60 tooth?

 

[Skin]

Actually, the Craftsman ratcheting Cross Force wrench you're holding is made by Armstrong not Gearwrench. There is a Gearwrench version but, it's a lot thinner and lighter than the beefier Armstrong/Craftsman/Matco version.

If they're made by Armstrong why does Armstrong not have it in their line-up and if the Maxx Beam/Ergo/CrossForce wrenches are all made by Armstrong why do they have the most limited offerings? Especially for a so called industrial brand, you'd think they'd have the larger sizes but they dont. I dont think you're correct on that assumption at all.

Matco = Craftsman at twice the price. Pretty sure they are both made by Danaher probably same factory in china or somewhere. You're paying for the name is my opinion..... Except ratchets maybe, they are a little better than the cheapo teardrop craftsman ratchets.

Compare some tools, start with sockets. They're not the same.

 

[Fedwrench]

If they're made by Armstrong why does Armstrong not have it in their line-up and if the Maxx Beam/Ergo/CrossForce wrenches are all made by Armstrong why do they have the most limited offerings? Especially for a so called industrial brand, you'd think they'd have the larger sizes but they dont. I dont think you're correct on that assumption at all.

The same question could asked of the pinless impact swivel sockets. Craftsman, Armstrong, and Matco have the same series of sockets. However, no one has the expanded sizes in 3/8 and 1/2 along with 1/4 drive but Matco.
As for the Armstrong Maxx/Crossforce wrench. Armstrong stopped making them this year. Visit your local Sears and the new ones are PRC made. My take on it is that they didn't sell well. Given the negative comments here, I'm not surprised. They show up quite often on Ebay and in closeout type vendors. They were great wrenches especially if you're doing repetive work and aren't fond of regular knife edge wrenches.
Armstrong is a fairly large industrial supplier. They cater mostly to people that work on machinery and their recent huge military contract. However, some of their offerings are slim in the automotive arena particularly in metric sizes but, that's just me. I do think that Danaher takes advantages of Armstrong production facilities to run Craftsman, Allen, and Matco tools though. Hell even current Armstrong chrome sockets have the same double detent cut out for the drive tool ball as craftsman sockets do. Have a Great Tool Day!!!

 

[otis66]

Armstrong tools is part of Danaher just like MATCO. Armstrong is also listed as being part of Apex tool group along with GearWrench. SATA tools, part of the APEX, has the MATCO logo. Looks like all tools will some day be made from the same factory in China.