My Porcelain Tile Install

[bdamico]

Last summer we bought a modern house we've always wanted. Wanted a bigger garage but this is pretty much as good as gets in Miami. The garage had been painted with H&C when it was built in 2007. For anyone thinking of going this route, you can see what it looks like five years later. In any event, over the last 6 months we got the rest of the house sorted. Now it's my turn to fix up the garage. I already put up racks across the ceiling, now the floors, then the entire back wall will be filled with blue Saber cabinets and work bench, flat screen, compressor, mini split, etc., etc.

I put down uCoat epoxy in my last house. It was a pain and I always worried about it coming up. Because of the previous coating, I was not in the mood to prep the floors in this house. I was actually going to leave the floor but you know how that goes. But then I thought about Racedeck. Close to $1500 to do my garage (minus discount). Then I started reading here and discovered that people had done porcelain tile.

I found my tile on CL. 12*24 inch concorde atlas italian rectified porcelain tile for $2 a foot. It's beautiful and the contractor I bought it from said it was $9 retail. He was going to use it for a commercial job that went south. He seemed a bit surprised it was going in a garage. Anway, good deal. Picked up 500 ft. Was going to install it myself but subs are so cheap here. The gc I bought the tile from gave me a recommendation for a tile sub who is going to do the job for $500 + materials. So we should be right around $1800 for this install--not a bad premium over Racedeck.

We bought 15 bags of thinset, 2 bags of grout, and Star Bond to apply to the surface--to help the thinset bond to the previous H&C coating.

Today, we chalked the center of the garage. Then he applied the Star Bond. Tomorrow he's going to lay the tile in a 1/3 offset bond pattern (thanks for the idea Dakota). Then he's going to grout on Tuesday.

**Finished pics are on 3**

[gerryw]

Following closely, so I can copy you!!
What's " H and C"?
Gerry

[mobiledynamics]

Hi -

What does H&C coating is / was ?

Prior to all this, did you pour liquid on the floor.
You want to see the concrete absorbing water. Otherwise, I would have went with a light scarifiying of the floors.

I just googled star bond as I was not familiar with it. It looks like a Latex Additive...but that is usually poured into the mud that you are using.

Just some thoughts that came to mind. The only time I've seen *sealing* prior is just to seal the concrete with a specific primer -from the same manuf. when using SLC.

I've never seen a liquid *prep* prior in this fashion, fwiw.

[Dakota00]

Originally Posted by mobiledynamics

Hi -

What does H&C coating is / was ?

Prior to all this, did you pour liquid on the floor.
You want to see the concrete absorbing water. Otherwise, I would have went with a light scarifiying of the floors.

I just googled star bond as I was not familiar with it. It looks like a Latex Additive...but that is usually poured into the mud that you are using.

Just some thoughts that came to mind. The only time I've seen *sealing* prior is just to seal the concrete with a specific primer -from the same manuf. when using SLC.

I've never seen a liquid *prep* prior in this fashion, fwiw.

I agree with you, I've never heard of star bond either. After google searching this product, it's a latex additive that should have been added to the thin set mix. NOT applied to the floor before setting the tiles.

The products I deal with from Mapei just came out with a primer called ECO Prim Grip. Coat the surface and it can be tiled within an hour.

[bdamico]

Originally Posted by Dakota00

I agree with you, I've never heard of star bond either. After google searching this product, it's a latex additive that should have been added to the thin set mix. NOT applied to the floor before setting the tiles.

The products I deal with from Mapei just came out with a primer called ECO Prim Grip. Coat the surface and it can be tiled within an hour.

First, the data sheet provides that Star Bond can be used as a primer, and it primiarily discusses its use as a primer, not as an additive to the thin set. .

Second, I had three guys come out and give estimates. All highly recommended. We talked about the surface and all of them said that the current coating was good without being removed.

The guy I hired couldn't finish his other job in time so now I have until Saturday to figure this out. I called him back up after seeing your post and he said he's laid lots of stone and tile in this manner and not to worry--I made clear again that cost isn't an issue and I'll remove it myself if necessary--he said not to. I understand the general advice is to remove all coatings--but I've had three contractors here tell me not to. Thoughts?

[BRIANBB]

I dont know your current situation but I just recently redid the tile in our masterbath and found that the tile that was loose had overspray on the floor under them from when the doors and trim were painted. the rest of the tile needed heavy chisling to get up. I would it would be best if there was no coating on the floor prior to installing the thinset and tile.

Originally Posted by bdamico

I understand the general advice is to remove all coatings--but I've had three contractors here tell me not to. Thoughts?

[Dakota00]

Originally Posted by bdamico

First, the data sheet provides that Star Bond can be used as a primer, and it primiarily discusses its use as a primer, not as an additive to the thin set. .

Second, I had three guys come out and give estimates. All highly recommended. We talked about the surface and all of them said that the current coating was good without being removed.

The guy I hired couldn't finish his other job in time so now I have until Saturday to figure this out. I called him back up after seeing your post and he said he's laid lots of stone and tile in this manner and not to worry--I made clear again that cost isn't an issue and I'll remove it myself if necessary--he said not to. I understand the general advice is to remove all coatings--but I've had three contractors here tell me not to. Thoughts?

Sooner or later the way things are going, the floor could fail. The way the contractor applied the latex does help if the surface is kept 100% clean and applied to an uncoated concrete surface. I don't believe that this guy has laid lots of stone and tile on top of an epoxy coating.

But under these circumstances the coating should be removed!! The thin-set should have latex mixed into it when applying tiles.
That's the proper way to go!!

[mobiledynamics]

bdamico -

I'm rooting for ya. But prep is KEY to tile.
It's not forgiving when you have bad prep.

In this pic, I can clearly see a crack.
You want to use some sort of crack isolation membrane/liquid on this...
Please make sure you substrate is prepped properly.
I'd hate to see this all have to come up.....

[Synergy]

On a side note, most building codes require water heaters in the garage to be elevated 2' or so off the ground. Flammable vapors (gas cans, etc) are heavier than air and sink along the floor and can be set off by the pilot light.

[BRIANBB]

It is probably electric.

Originally Posted by Synergy

On a side note, most building codes require water heaters in the garage to be elevated 2' or so off the ground. Flammable vapors (gas cans, etc) are heavier than air and sink along the floor and can be set off by the pilot light.

[bdamico]

Originally Posted by Synergy

On a side note, most building codes require water heaters in the garage to be elevated 2' or so off the ground. Flammable vapors (gas cans, etc) are heavier than air and sink along the floor and can be set off by the pilot light.

This is electric. In the future, it will be going outside and be replaced with a shop sink.

[bdamico]

Originally Posted by mobiledynamics

bdamico -

I'm rooting for ya. But prep is KEY to tile.
It's not forgiving when you have bad prep.

In this pic, I can clearly see a crack.
You want to use some sort of crack isolation membrane/liquid on this...
Please make sure you substrate is prepped properly.
I'd hate to see this all have to come up.....

There isn't a single crack. You must be seeing the chalk line.

[mobiledynamics]

Prior to putting StarBond, did you pour water on it. Did it absorb....you want that.
Scarifying the top is a good thing....

I'm not a tile mechanic but it's a system approach.
If Star Bond says it can be used as a primer or should be....then in theory your would be using their brand of mud in which the ~chemistry~ is meant to mate. Similar to how you would be using a *system* from Mapei, Laticrete, Ardex,, Custom, etc. I see what looks like Versabond thinset. I would consider using whatever brand that is of that Starbond...but hey, I'm a system sorta guy - like to stay within the same chemistry...

But given the 2, without asking me what liquid I used as a primer, I would choose the Versabond. I know...2 conflicting senteces.

[bdamico]

Originally Posted by mobiledynamics

Prior to putting StarBond, did you pour water on it. Did it absorb....you want that.
Scarifying the top is a good thing....

I'm not a tile mechanic but it's a system approach.
If Star Bond says it can be used as a primer or should be....then in theory your would be using their brand of mud in which the ~chemistry~ is meant to mate. Similar to how you would be using a *system* from Mapei, Laticrete, Ardex,, Custom, etc. I see what looks like Versabond thinset. I would consider using whatever brand that is of that Starbond...but hey, I'm a system sorta guy - like to stay within the same chemistry...

But given the 2, without asking me what liquid I used as a primer, I would choose the Versabond. I know...2 conflicting senteces.

Ok. Let's just say you all have swayed me here. Why not just grind or scrape it off (assuming I can)?

[mobiledynamics]

A concrete grinder would make that quick. But wait.....and I know you said this already.
Have you ran a screed or a laser line and checked the tile for square or FLAT. Does not need to be level but flat at least....

12x24 - HIGHER TOLERANCES of flatness. Less fudge factor

[bdamico]

Originally Posted by mobiledynamics

A concrete grinder would make that quick. But wait.....and I know you said this already.
Have you ran a screed or a laser line and checked the tile for square or FLAT. Does not need to be level but flat at least....

12x24 - HIGHER TOLERANCES of flatness. Less fudge factor

this rectified tile is as good as it gets--no bow, no nothing

[mobiledynamics]

It's not the tile I'm talking about.
It's the flooring....

It needs to be flat. Not level but at least flat. The large format needs a higher tolerance for it to install. One single hump can throw the whole thing off..

Going back to the other post. It's all about prep

[bdamico]

Originally Posted by mobiledynamics

It's not the tile I'm talking about.
It's the flooring....

It needs to be flat. Not level but at least flat. The large format needs a higher tolerance for it to install. One single hump can throw the whole thing off..

Going back to the other post. It's all about prep

The floor is flat with the one high spot leading to the step that he said he can handle with the thin set

[jhelrey]

You are worrying about it too much. Just make sure he warranties his work and enjoy

[mobiledynamics]

I suppose so. Just trying to help him get all the T and I's lined up. I just feel he's underpaying for the job (not that we don't like deals) and I'd hate for this beautiful tile to get ripped up down the road. At the rate per sq ft he's posted.......it's too good to be true. But hey, sometimes you have to learn twice, even if the price is right ....