To build or not to build, that is the question

drooartz · Mar 28, 2012

My basic question is this: Do I build a second garage?

and yes, I know this is a garage forum and y'all will say "of course!" but hear me out.

For background:

I've currently have a basic suburban garage, roughly 20'x20'. In one bay is my wife's SUV (Isuzu Rodeo Sport). In the other bay is my MGB and my BMW F650 motorcycle. At the end of that bay is a roughly 2'x10' work bench and my air compressor. My daily driver Kia Forte hatchback parks outside. This is as large as my fleet will ever be -- I've recently gone through a spate of downsizing and have never been happier to have less stuff claiming my time. I do maintenance on the MGB and bike but no deep restoration.

On the finance side, I've got a $20k line of credit available at 4% interest. That's all the budget I would have to do a build, not a cent more. Plan would be for a 20'x24' (see picture below, yellow square) detached garage. Wife and I both work for a local school district so our salary is modest but certainly adequate, no complaints. Moving is not an option for us, and I don't have the time or talent to build something myself (I have a second job as a musician). No kids, and not really any plans to have them (we'll see).

In the last two years we added a deck and redid all the landscaping. This year was planned to be the new garage year. I'd love to have a bit more space to work on the car or bike and it would be nice to be able to park my daily driver inside, especially in the winter. That said, I've worked out of this space (including restoring a Bugeye Sprite) for the last 6 years. I'm adamant about not having more stuff. So I don't *need* the extra space. My parents were never able to park their cars in a garage in the entire 50 years they've been married.

Were it free, I'd have the builders at my house today. But it's not free. $20k for us is doable but still a bunch of cash to spend. So I'm more-or-less spending $20k (plus more, I'm sure, by the time it's all done) to park my Kia inside. I'm wrestling with the value equation...

Current garage space

My lot, from an outdated Google Maps picture. Yellow square is rough location of a planned second garage, brown square is the deck we added, white rectangle at the back was a gravel area that is now all grass. Lot is roughly .3 acre.

Gary S · Mar 28, 2012

I'd say no. If you have to borrow the money, it doesn't make sense to spend money you don't need to spend as you say you don't really need the space.
Start saving your money, and if in a few years, you decide you want a garage, build it with the money you saved.

ddawg16 · Mar 28, 2012

I kind of agree with Gary.....

I would take part of the money and spruce up what you have. Do you have enough ceiling height for a lift?

I would at least toss some paint on those walls.

That said....the extra room is nice....especially being able to have a project spread all over the floor and not have to move stuff every night to put the cars back.

drooartz · Mar 29, 2012

I've been really going back and forth on this. While I do prefer to pay cash, right now the low interest rates make borrowing for a home improvement project like this really cheap to do -- balancing the costs of the loan against having the garage to use a few years earlier.

It would be nice to have the space to spread out a bit...

NUTTSGT · Mar 29, 2012

Have you thought of extending the garage you havefollowing the same roof line ? Where you window sits could be taken out and used as an opening to the other bay. It looks like it's concrete parking area already.

drooartz · Mar 29, 2012

NUTTSGT said:
Have you thought of extending the garage you havefollowing the same roof line?

I'm not sure I've got enough space to the property line to do that, but I have thought about it. I need to contact the zoning guy and see how close I can be to the line (my property line ends at the end of that concrete pad top-rightish in the picture).

A third bay would really be my preference if I could pull it off.

Falcon67 · Mar 29, 2012

After nearly a year of busting **** on the build, I was able this week to park my truck in the house garage along side the Fiesta. I warmed both hotrods in the shop last night and cleaned up the Falcon for a show this weekend. All the stuff from the house garage is crammed in the shop to be sorted out, and I had to park the golf cart in there too. Found a spot for all of it. Sitting at the bench listening to the Mustang rumbling, I was thinking it was all worth the effort. It's good to have a little space to put things and work on the cars.

barks · Mar 29, 2012

Sell the Kia. Buy a loaded Suburban. Now you have the justification for a $20,000 garage to put the truck in.

hockey88fan · Mar 29, 2012

Build it I say....

Zeke · Mar 29, 2012

Take the work bench and the bike out to a nice shed that can be had for a 1/4 of the amount you have. Doesn't get the Forte inside, but there are options for parking that cost little.

I love my working carport, but I don't get snow.

drooartz · Mar 30, 2012

Falcon67 said:
Sitting at the bench listening to the Mustang rumbling, I was thinking it was all worth the effort. It's good to have a little space to put things and work on the cars.

That paints a good picture, one I'd love to replicate. I think I'll start to work on getting some bids so I can see what the real cost will be. Snow is melted here (light winter this year) so it's time to take a look.

barks said:
Sell the Kia. Buy a loaded Suburban. Now you have the justification for a $20,000 garage to put the truck in.

Or I could buy a Suburban and just park the MGB inside it.

drooartz · Mar 30, 2012

Zeke said:
Take the work bench and the bike out to a nice shed that can be had for a 1/4 of the amount you have. Doesn't get the Forte inside, but there are options for parking that cost little.

I love my working carport, but I don't get snow.

I've thought of the carport idea (there might be space on the side of the house, depending on the setbacks here) but we usually get a lot of winter here. I think that if I do anything, I'll do the full garage. Warm space for the long winter would be nice.

dirttracker18 · Mar 30, 2012

Having been through a garage build, on loan attached to the mortgage, I wish I had waited until I had the cash.

My wife and I have recently buckled down and swore never to borrow money again. We are going to pay off our line of credit and then get to work on the mortgage. No more borrowing.

Even with the current interest rates, you can save up the money much faster than you can pay it off. Borrowing is a big game that serves to make others wealthy, we will no longer be a part of that.

Of course to each his own but it is simply a matter of flipping your thought process around. Instead of, I have paid off my loan, time for another project. You say I have saved up enough, time to build that project.

It's funny that when you have the cash sitting there, that project somehow seems a little less important.

This is easy to say when I already have a large garage behind my house, but 5 years later, I am still paying for it.

Food for thought.

drooartz · Mar 30, 2012

dirttracker18 said:
Even with the current interest rates, you can save up the money much faster than you can pay it off.

Loans are a tool, just like a hammer. There are times when it does pay to be able to move a project forward in time, even though there is a cost. For instance:

$20,000 loan @ 4% for 4 years = $452/month, $1676 interest paid over the life of the loan

So by saving versus borrowing (assuming the savings rate is the same as the payment, and banks right now pay nada in interest) I could save the $20,000 in 4 months less (3 years 8 months) then I could pay off the loan. Faster, yes, but not by a noticeable amount. Interest cost is roughly $35/month over the 4 years. (I'm a bit of a budgeting/accounting nerd, it's a hobby of mine.

)

Is it worth paying $1676 more to have the garage 4 years sooner? That's the question that determines if a loan is the right thing. For me, as I think about it, the answer is probably yes.

jvitez · Mar 30, 2012

Do it. You'll never regret too much space, and your numbers demonstrate the logic of your thinking. For $35 a month, you gain 4 years. What can we never get more of? Time.

drooartz · Mar 31, 2012

Thanks for all the good ideas. I'm going to get some bids for what I'm thinking about, and go from there. My budget is firm, so it's time to see what I can get for that amount.

Steevo · Mar 31, 2012

Wow, no kids and no plans to have any. I bet that fits right in with your typical neighbor in Utah.

I know, I am in Eastern Idaho, and most of the people in my area have a litter of kids. I think it's a mandate of some kind.

Anyway, when you decide which is more in your way, the F650 or that gorgeous MGB (right-hand drive, even!), you let me know, and I'll come down and get it out of your way.

drooartz · Apr 1, 2012

Steevo said:
Wow, no kids and no plans to have any. I bet that fits right in with your typical neighbor in Utah.

Anyway, when you decide which is more in your way, the F650 or that gorgeous MGB (right-hand drive, even!), you let me know, and I'll come down and get it out of your way.

Yeah, we're not the normal Utah family -- Utah's not a state that will run out of children anytime soon.

You've very kind, by the way, to offer to help me clear out the garage. Think I'll be holding on to them for a bit longer, though. :thumbup:

widerberg · May 23, 2012

Any updates? Did any of the bids come in under your budget? I'm interested in seeing how this all goes.

I've thought about downsizing my toys (I have 3 cars that I'm slooooowly restoring, only one of which runs), and the idea appeals, but I'm just too attached to them to get anywhere in actively downsizing. I like reading about doing it, though

drooartz · May 23, 2012

No bids in yet. The school district I work for is going through some budget woes right now and I'm waiting to see how that turns our before I take on a big project. Unlikely to effect me, but still I'd rather be sure before I dive in. Should start working on bids in a few weeks.

As for the downsizing, it's definitely tough to do. Worth all the effort, though. I rarely miss the things I sold, and I'm much happier playing with the few that are left -- especially now that I can devote time and resources to just the few of them. Much better!

drooartz · Jun 19, 2012

Had the first bidder come on-site this morning, should have the bid in later today or tomorrow. Plan is now for 20' x 24', 10' walls (or 8' plus stem wall for close to 10', depending on local code and pricing). That's as big as will fit in the space I have once setbacks and such are dealt with.

Got to make a few more calls this afternoon to get some more bids in. We're underway...

oilslick · Jun 19, 2012

I decided to go for it as well, though it is spending more than I have I figure why wait till I am to old to enjoy it and be able to fix cars in my back 40 now! Seriously I am on an impossible budget that takes some of the fun out but I have got the important stuff I wanted like the size and the all glass 10' doors like an old service station would have. Anyway I decided to pull the trigger and mine comes on a menards truck Friday so no going back now! Good luck to you and save where you can and use this forum for great ideas and help,I do!

drooartz · Jun 19, 2012

Got the bid in, just a shade under $20k for the whole deal (unfinished inside/no electrical but including everything else). Concrete is pricey... we have to do deeper footings here due to snow/frost, so that adds quite a bit to the base cost. Still, that's (just barely) under my budget so I'm reasonably encouraged. Have a few more calls to make for some comparisons, then I can get things lined up and get going.

Coyote Red · Jun 19, 2012

This is American, the land of debt and Snooki. Of course you should build it.

But seriously, If you work for a school district, you probably get some extended time off during the summer.. Act as general and save some $$.

drooartz · Jun 19, 2012

Coyote Red said:
This is American, the land of debt and Snooki. Of course you should build it.

But seriously, If you work for a school district, you probably get some extended time off during the summer.. Act as general and save some $$.

Unfortunately while I do work for a school district I work year round and summer is my busiest time (probably not taking any days off at all until sometime in October). Plus I'm gigging most weekends, so time is my scarcest commodity. No question that I'm going to build it, though.

Samurai · Jun 19, 2012

I was going to tell you to wait. Don't forget you don't necessarily have to build the whole thing at once. My dad built his 8-car monster garage himself over 3 years. Paycheck to paycheck, wall by wall.

I'm doing the same starting this month for a 19x24. Concrete this year, lumber & build next year. No debt.

However, with the turmoil the education sector has gone through in the last few years it is comforting to hear an education professional is comfortable with new debt. Enjoy it!

NUTTSGT · Jun 20, 2012

Bids coming and the building about to start, good news :thumbup:

drooartz · Jun 20, 2012

Samurai said:
However, with the turmoil the education sector has gone through in the last few years it is comforting to hear an education professional is comfortable with new debt. Enjoy it!

Good luck on your build!

I'll admit that if interest rates weren't as low as they are, and if we didn't already have the line of credit set up (used it for a few projects over the last few years) then I wouldn't be going the loan route. As it is, I'll take advantage of it. I'm ready for some more space!

drooartz · Jun 27, 2012

Just signed on the dotted line for my new barn! Very excited... though the plan is a bit different then I first thought. Made some changes...

wait for it...

Wound up going much smaller. Half my original size. Hear me out.

I know that's not the normal way, but two things figured in. First was cost -- while the bids were all comfortably inside my original budget I decided that my original budget was more than I wanted to spend on this project. Especially as the original plan (20x24, eventually insulated, heated, lift, etc) would entail more spending over the next couple of years to fully fit it out. New plan is 1/2 the cost too, and will need fewer upgrades in the future.

Second issue was need. I did some serious thinking, and really decided that what I need is a big shed. Room for the MG, bike, and lawn implements for the winter. I've worked out of 1/2 a standard 2 car garage for years (and I still have that space), so I can keep doing that in the summer and just pack everything in the shed for winter storage. Sized it large enough that I could turn it into a small shop someday as well (helps that I like small cars).

So I went back to square one, and wound up with a 12' x 20' barn/shed instead. Still on a concrete foundation, but using double shed doors (8' wide total x 7' tall). Nice thing with the barn style is that there's lots of room for a loft for more storage. I'm happy, the wallet's happy, off we go!

(will add a new thread for the build and fitting out once we get started)

To build or not to build, that is the question

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