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Old 05-03-2012, 12:15 PM   #81
JMartel
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Default Re: Motorcycle skills test (pass rate)..

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Originally Posted by fomocoforrester View Post
I agree that in a straight line emergency stop the front brake is by far the most important - right up to the point when the stop is on the point of becoming a "stoppie" (i.e. the back wheel is about to lift) and 100 % of the braking force is going through the front wheel.

However, I find that for ultra low speed cornering control, the back brake is the best one to use since the braking force is in line with the bike and it will not affect the lean angle. Whereas, any front brake input will result in a braking force that is out of line with the bike and that will tend to pull the front wheel out from under you. With too much braking force this can result in what is in effect a "low side" drop.
Right. My braking advise was for the straight line. As a personal preference, I don't even use my rear brake in low speed operations. Low speed handling most people prefer being on the rear brake. There are a few situations where I'll use it, like full lock U-turns, but then again, I have a pseudo sportbike (sv1000) so it's more difficult to turn that around tightly than a cruiser/enduro.

As far as the front brake input, I disagree. With modern tires, it takes quite a bit of braking force to dislodge a front tire, provided you aren't on an oil slick/gravel. It is easier on cruisers, however due to the rake angle. Sportbikes/Enduros will pivot on the wheel resulting in a stoppie, while cruisers will be more likely to wash the front. It's worth noting that it still takes a real hamfisted move to wash the front end of a bike (cruiser included). It's far easier to lock up the rear, which can result in a lowside or a highside.

OP: Just see about practicing as much as you can. More front braking on the emergency stops. There won't be gravel on the road course, so there's no need to look down in front of you in the turn. Crank your head to the side, and you'll find it's much easier to turn. The further ahead you scan, the quicker you'll see the gravel and can react to it appropriately on the road as well. By the time you hit the turn, you should be on a line that does not have gravel and are looking well past. The bike will follow the line you tell it to. Target fixation is a bitch.
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:41 PM   #82
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Default Re: Motorcycle skills test (pass rate)..

Last year when I took the class I got a 90% on my written test and only got a couple points off the riding test. Out of my class of 6 only one person failed the riding test (she had never ridden a motorcycle before)
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:45 PM   #83
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Default Re: Motorcycle skills test (pass rate)..

We had a REAL attractive young blond in our MSF course.
When she failed the course, the instructor (Maryland state trooper) offered to give her 'personal' instruction.

I'll bet he did............................................... ............

Steve
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:51 PM   #84
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Default Re: Motorcycle skills test (pass rate)..

I would say that the mfs brc is allot harder then allot of states road test, 3 right circle, 3 left circles, 3 figure 8, and go drive 10 blocks and you get your lic. Does not need to do much, and you know very little. The BCR makes you learn more. So with the guys that took it on their own bikes in the states, you did not take the bcr.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:15 PM   #85
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Default Re: Motorcycle skills test (pass rate)..

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As far as the front brake input, I disagree. With modern tires, it takes quite a bit of braking force to dislodge a front tire, provided you aren't on an oil slick/gravel. It is easier on cruisers, however due to the rake angle. Sportbikes/Enduros will pivot on the wheel resulting in a stoppie, while cruisers will be more likely to wash the front. It's worth noting that it still takes a real hamfisted move to wash the front end of a bike (cruiser included). It's far easier to lock up the rear, which can result in a lowside or a highside.
I wasn't really talking about a situation where the front tire had lost grip on the road surface - in other words - a "wash out". I was refering to the condition that exists at the point of contact of the front wheel during a low speed turn when you apply a braking force with no loss of adhesion.

What happens, is that the axis of the braking force, which is out of line with the bike, has a lateral component which in effect tends to prevent the front wheel from following the bike into the curve thus causing the bike to want to lean further. If the steering is already on full lock, you can't regain equilibrium by applying more lock and the loss of speed adds to the imbalance, so the bike will just lie down.

The back braking force will also cause the bike to lean futher into the turn, but this is due solely to the loss of speed as it doesn't have the lateral component that the out of line front braking force has. Consequently the overall effect is not so great and you have a much better chance of regaining equilibrium if you are not already on full lock.

I first became aware of this way back as a learner when, on more than one occasion, I was attempting to do a U turn and having misjudged the space available I applied too much front brake and wound up sitting in the road. Whereas, if I had only used the back brake, I might have managed to save the situation....
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Old 06-06-2012, 11:19 PM   #86
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Default Re: Motorcycle skills test (pass rate)..

well, a thread update... I've since passed the test, ridden a few hundred more miles on my friends Shadow and just took home this new R1200R yesterday... I'm absolutely loving this thing! It's a most amazing bike... balance like a Gyroscope, goads of power and a sound like nothing else I've ever seen.. 5 stars!

Got 77 miles on it in two days so far.. but the darn rain is coming now!
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Old 06-06-2012, 11:28 PM   #87
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Default Re: Motorcycle skills test (pass rate)..

congrats on the test and the bike. The r12r is a very good all arounder bike. Put a large shield on and some panniers and you are set for a long trip. And the tele lever front is very forgiving. If you go into a turn to hot, no worry with grabbing the front brakes as you can keep her turning.
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Old 06-06-2012, 11:37 PM   #88
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Default Re: Motorcycle skills test (pass rate)..

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Put a large shield on and some panniers and you are set for a long trip. .

that is the current plan! thanks for the advise.
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Old 06-06-2012, 11:41 PM   #89
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Default Re: Motorcycle skills test (pass rate)..

I love my BMW for long trips, they are very sporty feel without being a rolling couch. Enjoy and ride safe. PS get some good gear, road rash is a ba-itch.
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Old 06-06-2012, 11:47 PM   #90
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Default Re: Motorcycle skills test (pass rate)..

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I love my BMW for long trips, they are very sporty feel without being a rolling couch. Enjoy and ride safe. PS get some good gear, road rash is a ba-itch.
I tried a lot of stuff but ended up with BMW brand jacket and pants with the nano-armor and an Arai helmet.. some Alpine Star gloves and my Wolverine leather boots.. I won't even go down the street without it all on.
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Old 06-06-2012, 11:57 PM   #91
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Default Re: Motorcycle skills test (pass rate)..

BMW makes great textile gear, my wife loves her's stuff. They are worth the higher price imho. The boots, you will most likely get better feed back form the pegs is you go to a motorcycle boot instead. I wear my timberlands pro every now riding to work they work, but on sporty rides, they just do not give me the feed back as my daytona or tcx touring boots.
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:03 AM   #92
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Default Re: Motorcycle skills test (pass rate)..

Hey Congrats on passing. I see you got a new bike, thats cool. I dont want to be a bummer, but keep in mind, the biggest chance a new rider has of going down happens within the first 6 months. new rider, new bike that your not familiar with yet, be fuckin careful. Dont be gettin cocky and shit, you got a lot of years riding in front of you, save it for when you got some miles under your belt. Enjoy the bike &" keep yer knees in da breeze and da bugs in yer teeth"
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Old 06-07-2012, 08:43 AM   #93
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Default Re: Motorcycle skills test (pass rate)..

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Hey Congrats on passing. I see you got a new bike, thats cool. I dont want to be a bummer, but keep in mind, the biggest chance a new rider has of going down happens within the first 6 months. new rider, new bike that your not familiar with yet, be fuckin careful. Dont be gettin cocky and shit, you got a lot of years riding in front of you, save it for when you got some miles under your belt. Enjoy the bike &" keep yer knees in da breeze and da bugs in yer teeth"
no, you're 100% correct and knowledge of these statistics is power. I am well aware and am very caucus and consider myself still a student.. I steer clear of any sort of risk taking, and drive in traffic like I'm borderline paranoid that every car is trying to kill me. I take curves in this bike like I"m riding a Fatboy or even bigger... etc..
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:50 AM   #94
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Default Re: Motorcycle skills test (pass rate)..

I got grandfathered in for a motorcycle license back in the early 60's. I had a bike registered when they decided they wanted to issue motorcycle licenses and generate more cash for the states coffers.
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Old 06-07-2012, 10:21 AM   #95
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Default Re: Motorcycle skills test (pass rate)..

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...and drive in traffic like I'm borderline paranoid that every car is trying to kill me. etc..
THat's cause they ARE!


Three Rules of traffic:
1.) When you throw your leg over the seat you are instantly invisible.
2.) If they could see you, they would try to hit you out of jealousy/spite.
3.) Gross vehicular weight rules apply (he with the most mass... wins)

Ride Safe!



One last piece of advice, avoid group rides till you get some real saddle time under your belt. To many accidents are caused by inexperienced riders riding in groups that get pushed beyond their abilities/comfort zone.

Last edited by daveroy; 06-07-2012 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 06-07-2012, 10:23 AM   #96
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Default Re: Motorcycle skills test (pass rate)..

I bought a motorcycle and took the course a few years ago. Never ridden before, 99 on riding test and 100 on written. Being a bicycle rider helped a ton in terms of low speed control, looking around, etc.

Fast forward to now - bike still not running, gonna fix it and likely immediately sell it. Sigh...
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Old 06-07-2012, 11:48 AM   #97
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Default Re: Motorcycle skills test (pass rate)..

I would say you are about normal for the course. My son and I just took the course about a month ago. I have been riding since high school (about 25 years) but as much as I am ashamed to admit this, I have never had my motorcycle endorsement.

My son wanted a motorcycle and although I was not in favor at first my wife even explained that we work on bikes for a living and he has been riding dirt bikes since he was eight years old, how can you tell him you don't want him on a motorcycle?

I agreed to let him get a bike if he took the MSF riding course. He wanted me to take it with him. I agreed and figured I might as well get that "M" on my license too. Even as long as I have been riding I was still pretty impressed with the class. Although some of it was waaaaay to basic, I understand why they must structure the class the way they do to accomodate all riding skill levels.

My son and I took the class on the bikes they provided which I was on a Yamaha TW200 and my son was on a Yamaha XT200 due to our long legs not working well on the 250 cc cruisers. We took the final test on my Harley Davidson Sportster 1200 and both passed. I acrued one point for entering the turn too fast and my son acrued three points for putting his foot down in the box once and starting his emergency stop a little too soon.

There were two others in the class that wanted to pass on the 650cc and larger bike but the instructors did not feel they were ready. One took the instructors advice and waited to get more practice and the other was insistant on taking the final test on the 650cc bike because his dad expected him to be able to ride a large cc bike. The kid ended up dumping the 650 on the evasive manuever when he locked the front wheel and the bike went out from underneathe him. The instructor tried to talk to the kid about it was better that happen on the range than the street but the kid was pissed.

There were two others that failed the riding portion but they could retest within a month's time. All in all I think it was a good program and I would highly recommend it.

If you failed I would not take it bad, just practice and make sure to follow the procedures that you learned in the training until they become second nature. That is how you are going to avoid an injury/accident on the street.

Mike.

On edit. I just saw that you passed your test. Congratulations! I still recommend practicing not only the riding practical applications but get into a larger vacant parking lot and practice some of the tighter manuevers that you did during the course. Practicing these will develop the skills to where you don't have to think about them. When presented with an emergency manuever you want to have your mind respond as quickly and effortlessly as possible and that only comes from experience/practice. Good luck and enjoy the freedom of being on two wheels.

Last edited by zmotorsports; 06-07-2012 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:02 PM   #98
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Default Re: Motorcycle skills test (pass rate)..

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Hey Congrats on passing. I see you got a new bike, thats cool. I dont want to be a bummer, but keep in mind, the biggest chance a new rider has of going down happens within the first 6 months. new rider, new bike that your not familiar with yet, be fuckin careful. Dont be gettin cocky and shit, you got a lot of years riding in front of you, save it for when you got some miles under your belt. Enjoy the bike &" keep yer knees in da breeze and da bugs in yer teeth"

There's also a blip in accident rate at the 2 year experience mark. The theory is that after 2 years with no incidents the rider get over confident.

I think riding a motorcycle in traffic also improves your awareness while in a car. That's a good thing right?

New riders, be carful, be confident, and keep your ego in check. Most of all, have fun.
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:11 PM   #99
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Default Re: Motorcycle skills test (pass rate)..

Congrats, and a great bike you have. IMHO, after having put a lot of miles on BMW (250K), learn to do your own maintenance. It will save you a fortune, and make you much more familiar with your bike. Check out my web site for some solid info.

Also, IMHO, go with the smaller BMW fly screen. Bigger screens on that bike really do not work well, and just dirty up the air. A clean flow that hits high on the chest will make long rides comfortable, non-buffeting, and quieter.

Enjoy, and ride safe!

Jim
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:55 PM   #100
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Default Re: Motorcycle skills test (pass rate)..

I know this probably not related to the original poster but worth noting on a thread related to motorcycle safety and endorsement. If you have experienced a lot of "close calls" in an automobile then you more than likely should not be on a bike. Most if not all accidents can be avoided and it is the responsibility more so on the motorcycle rider to be aware of and actively participate in this thinking.

On the flip side if you are a safe driver in an automobile and are aware of your surroundings and pay attention to the tell tale signs of other drivers then you will probably be a very safe and responsible motorcycle rider, providing you keep your ego and brain in check like someone already mentioned.

Mike.
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