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Old 08-09-2011, 01:03 AM   #21
Charles (in GA)
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Default Re: Why do some breakers have two wire receiving slots?

THIS GE brochure offers no indication that their residential series breakers accommodate more than one wire per terminal, see p.14 (PDF file p. 15).

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Old 08-09-2011, 01:21 AM   #22
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Default Re: Why do some breakers have two wire receiving slots?

THIS Eaton/C-H document shows that 15 and 20 amp CH breakers are approved for one or two wires, and for BR breakers (formerly Bryant) there is no indication that they are allowed to accept two wires. See Data Tables 1-2 and 1-3 and 1-10 and 1-11.

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Old 08-09-2011, 10:15 AM   #23
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Default Re: Why do some breakers have two wire receiving slots?

Also looked at the service panel requirements:

Article 110-3(b) of the NEC states that Listed or labeled equipment shall be used or installed in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling. Just because a breaker fits in the panel does not mean that it is okay to install it in that panel.

If a particular breaker is labeled as meeting a certain "classification", then it complies with this specification. When UL tests a particular breaker, they do so as to meeting a certain classification; not a particular manufacturer's specification.

All service panels contain the typical legal-eze: Only use Type XX or Brand XX breakers or you void the manufacturer's warranty... blah, blah, bladdy, blah, blah.

Also on the wire nuts, read section 312.8...about as clear as mud. It addresses the use of "gutter-area" in service panels. My pre-purchase home inspection found these used within the service panel and was an immediate failure. We also found enough other issues that we gutted the wiring and installed all new service panel and new circuits before moving in.

While NEC is a good starting point, each state and even localities can have differing interpretation of what should or shouldn't be permitted.

Just an FYI.
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Old 08-09-2011, 06:13 PM   #24
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Default Re: Why do some breakers have two wire receiving slots?

http://activerain.com/blogsview/1441...rcuit-breakers
http://www.nachi.org/forum/f19/doubl...reakers-28267/
I was flat out told NO to this by my electrical inspector.
Not sure why it came up when he did my inspection. I think it crossed my mind at the time you could do that.
But he threw cold water on the idea. Said just use a wire nut.
The above articles shows it ought to be ok if the breaker was made to do it.
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Old 08-09-2011, 06:18 PM   #25
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Default Re: Why do some breakers have two wire receiving slots?

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Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
http://activerain.com/blogsview/1441...rcuit-breakers
http://www.nachi.org/forum/f19/doubl...reakers-28267/
I was flat out told NO to this by my electrical inspector.
Not sure why it came up when he did my inspection. I think it crossed my mind at the time you could do that.
But he threw cold water on the idea. Said just use a wire nut.
The above articles shows it ought to be ok if the breaker was made to do it.
Yup, just ignorance if you had a panel that supports it. I highly doubt any local code would override something like that, it's perfectly safe.
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Old 08-09-2011, 08:43 PM   #26
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Default Re: Why do some breakers have two wire receiving slots?

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Also on the wire nuts, read section 312.8...about as clear as mud..
It's actually very clear. As long as you have sufficient wire fill, you can splice in a panel enclosure. Think of it as a large junction box. Failing a home inspection on that is asinine. The more I hear about home inspectors, the more I think they are a waste of money.
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:05 AM   #27
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Default Re: Why do some breakers have two wire receiving slots?

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It's actually very clear. As long as you have sufficient wire fill, you can splice in a panel enclosure. Think of it as a large junction box. Failing a home inspection on that is asinine. The more I hear about home inspectors, the more I think they are a waste of money.
And adding a splice or two, or even several, is not going to come close to the fill limits they specify. Its not uncommon to have splices in panels when you replaced a smaller, older panel with a new, large one. The wires never reach to the breaker, so you end up splicing them, or running a new wire back to the first junction, which is time consuming. You need to get that panel in and working right away, so you splice in the panel.

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Old 08-10-2011, 09:55 AM   #28
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Default Re: Why do some breakers have two wire receiving slots?

No wire nuts in the breaker panel around here. When doing a service change out, a box is often placed next to the panel where all such connections are made.
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Old 04-25-2012, 03:10 PM   #29
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Default Re: Why do some breakers have two wire receiving slots?

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Nice answer. I have a couple or wiring books and these breakers are not mentioned.

Try to be a little more helpful and a little less snide.
I gotta say, that's how it felt when I read his post. Soldier on . . .
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Old 04-26-2012, 07:39 AM   #30
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Default Re: Why do some breakers have two wire receiving slots?

to the original question, two wires if fine if the breaker is designed for it, but beware that an inspector may need to see proof, so have paperwork ready.

When it comes to failing a home inspection because of wire nuts in a LC, almost every older home I've ever worked on would fail if that were true. When doing a service swap, some do mount a gutter, or box to make connections, but usually it is if they know they will have to make up a lot of spices.

As far as "get a book" answers, I do think they have a place. I don't think we should encourage some people to pursue electrical work without doing some homework, esspecially when they ask questions that show that they have absolutely no idea what is going on. For this post, I think it is a great question, and I definately don't think it warrents that type of attitude. I imagine that there are a lot of electricians out there who are unaware of the rules.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:09 PM   #31
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Default Re: Why do some breakers have two wire receiving slots?

I dont guess I have ever seen one. When I read the post I was thinking about an af or gf.. Most of the stuff I have worked on is ch brand.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:59 PM   #32
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Default Re: Why do some breakers have two wire receiving slots?

I gotta say I've been impressed with MrMark's electrical knowledge in the past, so I'm learning something by him asking the question.
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:12 PM   #33
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Default Re: Why do some breakers have two wire receiving slots?

Hey, I've been doing this for almost 50 years and there is always something to learn. Sometimes from those new to the trade as well as those that pass on their yeas of knowledge. Snobbery is fine for fun but not to poke fun at a serious question.

Yes QO Sq "D"'s are made for two wires. Westinghouse, Bryant, Cutler Hammer BR's are not designed for two except the breaker lug will accept two wires. Some inspectors will approve the practice if you twist the wires together and they are the sam AWG.

It is not illegal to splice wires in a panel if you do not use up more than 40% of the wireway.

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Old 05-01-2012, 10:19 PM   #34
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Default Re: Why do some breakers have two wire receiving slots?

hh76,
Good points.
I used to make a lot of money going out to check on HOME INSPECTOR's claims of poor wiring and equipment that need to be replaced. About 75% of the claims were bogus. The home inspectors take a 10 hour course in the five major trades and consider themselves experts. I used to charge to write a report for the buyer or seller so they could take it to the passing. After the passing I might consider working in the home, if asked to, to defray thought of bias in the report.

Last edited by Fred43; 05-01-2012 at 10:22 PM.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:26 PM   #35
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Default Re: Why do some breakers have two wire receiving slots?

Haven't seen it mentioned but don't GCFI breakers always have terminals for two wires, the black and the neutral. They also always have the pigtail for connecting to the neutral. Could this be what the original poster was asking about "terminals for two wires".
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:40 PM   #36
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Default Re: Why do some breakers have two wire receiving slots?

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Get yourself a book on basic electrical wiring at the library or Box store.
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Originally Posted by Torque1st View Post
If you had ANY knowledge of basic household electricity you would not be asking such a question. And you would have known Ohm's Law and how to use it and not make dumb comments.

My avatar is a character from Beyond Thunderdome.

Mr Mark obviously IS a noob at electrical work.
There are no stupid questions, but there are stupid answers.
You, sir, gave stupid answers.
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:44 PM   #37
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Default Re: Why do some breakers have two wire receiving slots?

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There are no stupid questions, but there are stupid answers.
You, sir, gave stupid answers.
Jesus, I had many old timers here compliment me on my answer to this OLD thread that some newbie with one post opened back up. My answer was appropriate for the knowledge level of the OP.

That idiotic 'truism' you quoted is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. A palliative for the ignorant masses. One would have to be rock stupid to go around quoting it...
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:31 AM   #38
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Default Re: Why do some breakers have two wire receiving slots?

Ironically, your signature says a lot about you.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:12 PM   #39
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Default Re: Why do some breakers have two wire receiving slots?

Thank you!
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:18 PM   #40
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Default Re: Why do some breakers have two wire receiving slots?

Ditto....not very helpful.
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