Pay attention if you buy Craftsman these days
- Thread starter Duck tape Bill
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dirtydogintex
Well-known member
As long as Sears is up front about it.... which, for the most part, they haven't been so far.
Folks have the right to voice their opinion w/their pocket book.
I see the real issue being the 'lifetime' warranty on goods previously sold.
I'll prolly sit on warranty items until Sears pulls their head out - events similar to their 'made in Japan' 80s campaign...
Fordman7795
Well-known member
Do you want to have a job in the United States in the future?
mrbreezeet1
Banned
I see absolutely no need for this.
Tarheelgarage has been around and is a respected member,with normally good input.
I just don't get it?
I think the OP has a valid point.
DanarchyCustoms
Well-known member
I have even been able to tell the difference in the plating of Craftsman 'Made in in China' tools vs their older USA line and the newer stuff does have a shinier more 'galvanized' look/color to them. The machining markings are less clean and overall makes you wonder what else is different in materials on the internals! I don't mind if they switched to Chinese/Japanese factories because "I know" of the switch but to those who shop Craftsman rarely and still think they are Made in the USA, those are the people they are trying to fool!
kythri
Well-known member
They're not actively seeking to deceive people.
They've removed the "USA" from the tools themselves.
They've removed the "Made in the USA" markings from their packaging.
They've redesigned the packaging (the font, coloring, layout, etc. is different from the domestically produced product).
They're marking "Made in China" or "Made in Taiwan" on the packaging.
About the only thing they're NOT doing is making a big deal that they've moved production - which is pretty much right in line with ANYONE else that's done similar things.
Quite honestly, while the shift in production *****, Sears doesn't have any responsibility, outside of the law, to advertise these changes and educate the shopping public. Caveat Emptor. Do your own homework. The tools will still do the job for most people, and still have a lifetime warranty, so it's not like there's some giant conspiracy to lull the United States into some kind of complacency about their ability to perform mechanical repairs.
Don't like them? Don't buy them. I'm not.
OP
Duck tape Bill
Well-known member
I agree, with you DanarchyCustoms, it's the infrequent shoppers that they are trying to fool. My problem is that the ratchets I bought were in a clearly marked "made in USA" package, and since I couldn't see the back of the ratchets in the package, I assumed they were USA made. It's just one of those things that really rubs me the wrong way.
sberry
Banned
I wend in to a Sears and got a real deal on some sale items etc but they have taken a fundamental flawed approach to the China market etc. Why they ever went so cheap is beyond me, they have shot themselves in the foot to the extent they don't have a place next to Kobalt, it should have been taken over by new mgt decades ago.
They should have went the other way to **** up a spot under SK instead of going head to head with Imports,,,Walmart and half a dozen other stores several times their size, dumb,,,,, they should have improved it, charged more, got away from Kmart and went to Target and Craftsman outlets at Sears but they sided with Kmart. the ratchet should have been a flagship tool, as completive prices fell they could have remained steady, instead they yank the rejects off the line divert them to Craftsman to put them on sale. They wasted a brand that was a major player.
They should have went the other way to **** up a spot under SK instead of going head to head with Imports,,,Walmart and half a dozen other stores several times their size, dumb,,,,, they should have improved it, charged more, got away from Kmart and went to Target and Craftsman outlets at Sears but they sided with Kmart. the ratchet should have been a flagship tool, as completive prices fell they could have remained steady, instead they yank the rejects off the line divert them to Craftsman to put them on sale. They wasted a brand that was a major player.
sberry
Banned
Shame is that Sears won the battle with Wards etc but got in a whole generational ownership that assumed because they came out on top of one battle they would remain king, I remember when I was a kid,, Sears, Wards Pennys, we were rural so slow to get new stores etc but these were everwhere. Sears tools were considered professional. They were a pioneer in warranty to some extent.
We got a Kmart, they are the dunders of the lcal oposition for the most part against a Walmart which is dumb not to have in our case, lots of local shopping goes out of town, Kmart has its issues, one being significantly higher pricing, Walmart comes along they might as well close the doors. You pay a small premium from store to store on a lot of items at a Walmart but its not huge.
Might have been family issues in these biz, older refuse to keep up when they are already moguls, maybe some withdrawl of the fortune by a generation, simple poor management, short term greed, probably all of the above. Remember when the thought of the kmart company tanking was considered a huge deal, I meant to buy a little stock for a buck for giggles, for a while it paid to own it.
We got a Kmart, they are the dunders of the lcal oposition for the most part against a Walmart which is dumb not to have in our case, lots of local shopping goes out of town, Kmart has its issues, one being significantly higher pricing, Walmart comes along they might as well close the doors. You pay a small premium from store to store on a lot of items at a Walmart but its not huge.
Might have been family issues in these biz, older refuse to keep up when they are already moguls, maybe some withdrawl of the fortune by a generation, simple poor management, short term greed, probably all of the above. Remember when the thought of the kmart company tanking was considered a huge deal, I meant to buy a little stock for a buck for giggles, for a while it paid to own it.
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pfarber
Well-known member
The OP is foolish in thinking the quality matters because of three letters stamped on the handle.
Even if those magical 3 letters are on the handle, the tooling, presses, packaging etc etc all came from China or elsewhere.
Other than not having those three letters I have yet to read about any demonstrable defects that could not be attributed to mass production variance. Yes, some tool lines are garbage, but Craftsman (arguably the most popular) has earned the level of hate because of its quality... its only because of those three letters.
Its like this is a massive bigots convention here.
Even if those magical 3 letters are on the handle, the tooling, presses, packaging etc etc all came from China or elsewhere.
Other than not having those three letters I have yet to read about any demonstrable defects that could not be attributed to mass production variance. Yes, some tool lines are garbage, but Craftsman (arguably the most popular) has earned the level of hate because of its quality... its only because of those three letters.
Its like this is a massive bigots convention here.
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ishiboo
Well-known member
I would be pissed too if they were doing it on purpose, but it was a simple mistake. Perhaps as many said a customer returned Taiwan ratchets in a Made in USA package. Or perhaps they were packaged domestically and someone grabbed the wrong packaging. Return them if you're not happy with the higher-than-US made Craftsman quality Taiwan ratchets.
No company is going to advertise the fact they're moving tool production overseas, but Sears hasn't tried to conceal the fact either as kythri pointed out everything looks completely different. If you want to tell the difference, if the overall chrome and fit/finish of the tool looks fantastic, it's probably not USA-made Craftsman.
ishiboo
Well-known member
waaaaaaaah
honcho
Well-known member
Sears hasn't won any battle with anyone in years. Monkey Wards was just went to the graveyard earlier. Eddie Lampert's purchase of K-Mart and Sears was widely touted as mostly a real estate deal (based on the value of their properties). The recession of recent years put a damper on extracting the real estate value out of the businesses and they don't have a coherent strategy for making K-Mart and Sears ongoing profitable businesses. K-Mart and Sears may survive, but it's not going to be on the basis of selling USA-made tools.
From Wikipedia: In a May 2012 Forbes magazine article, contributor Adam Hartung described Lampert as the second worst CEO/Chairman of a large publicly traded American company, saying he "has destroyed Sears" after taking over "once the most critical force in retailing" when "same-store-sales kept declining, and the stock fell out of bed dropping into the $30s in 2009 and again in 2012."
From Wikipedia: In a May 2012 Forbes magazine article, contributor Adam Hartung described Lampert as the second worst CEO/Chairman of a large publicly traded American company, saying he "has destroyed Sears" after taking over "once the most critical force in retailing" when "same-store-sales kept declining, and the stock fell out of bed dropping into the $30s in 2009 and again in 2012."
ihateminimumwage
Well-known member
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Again, the OP is angry because the packaging says Made in USA, and the ratchets in that packaging were not. A pretty valid complaint, if you leaned toward buying that product because of it's COO.
People choosing to support products made in the USA is their choice, and isn't a racial thing, so drop the 'bigots convention' BS.
Personally, I've given up on Craftsman and Sears as a whole. Doesn't make a ton of sense to me to dig through the junk to find NOS American made tools, so I can give my money to a company on the fast track to being all Chinese production (for the short remainder of time they have).
sberry
Banned
Facts are good, was just guessing about how the decline came about, right, agree totally they havnt won a fight, they cant now no matter what. They are too small anymore. If I am not mistaken about the same class as TSC maybe? At least they got a niche.
matt1977
Well-known member
lbgradwell
Well-known member
I find it extraordinary how many people are not concerned about a mis-labelled package. Regardless of what an individual feels about Chinese tools, there should be universal condemnation of a company misrepresenting the origins of that item.
Although, in this instance, I think pipsters has called it correctly; I don't believe Sears is to blame on this one & it is more probable a customer switched the packaging.
Although, in this instance, I think pipsters has called it correctly; I don't believe Sears is to blame on this one & it is more probable a customer switched the packaging.
Tucko
Well-known member
Send em back through the front window, taped to a red, white, and blue rock....
jjjrmx5
Well-known member
One would hope to think he does. If I buy German or Belgian chocolates, do I assume that the chocolates made in China are of the exact same quality but without the same COO? It's really just that simple , huh?
Highly doubtful .
I highly doubt you have ANY plausible proof of that. Lot's of tooling still comes from the USA, Europe and countires other than China. That's a far greater issue than the tool itself and one, if you are American, should ponder a little more I suggest.
Really?
All I see is an OP that was duped but someone doing a switch-a-roo and returning Taiwan sourced ratchets in the non-original packaging.
Well, and the somewhat bigoted and foolish comment you yourself posted above.
Geesh.
I hope you don't live in a glass house and have stones laying about.
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SMKS
Well-known member
Have any proof that the tooling and presses came from China?
And your bigot comment is completely out of line and incorrect. I know you're just trolling, but claiming racism isn't even a good job of trolling.
This thread has turned even stupider than many here do. The OP has a legitimate complaint that the item he bought was incorrectly labeled. I also suspect it was returned and not necessarily the fault of Sears.
BTW, the thin profile ratchets and all the other polished ratchets are made in Taiwan, not China. The new raised panel ratchets are now made in China, except for the ones included in tool sets. Those are still made in the USA.
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bp460
Well-known member
It is pretty clear that someone had previously purchased the USA ratchets
and swapped them out with the import version and then returned them.
I have encountered this before and it is an inconvenience... but just return
them and look for the USA versions or spend your money somewhere else.
-Brad
and swapped them out with the import version and then returned them.
I have encountered this before and it is an inconvenience... but just return
them and look for the USA versions or spend your money somewhere else.
-Brad
I'm new here, although I have been reading Garage Journal threads for couple years. Today, I happen to read this thread by..Duck tape Bill.
I have been a loyal fan/user of Sears-Craftsman tools since 1955. My first Sears tools was purchased in 1955 in San Diego when I was stationed at North Island Naval Air Station after I had bought a used 1954 Mercury, and one needs tools when owning a automobile. As of today, I figure my Sears/Craftsman tools run about $23,500.00. I have about every tool that Sears has sold in their stores. My 40' x 40' garage/shop is full of Sears tools.
However, that all changed about three years ago when I was informed by my stock broker that Sears/Kmart was going to China/Taiwan to have their tool made. At that time I sold my 3,680 shares of Sears stock for I was warned my stock would take a dive, and it did.
I don't darken the doors of Sears anymore.
I have been a loyal fan/user of Sears-Craftsman tools since 1955. My first Sears tools was purchased in 1955 in San Diego when I was stationed at North Island Naval Air Station after I had bought a used 1954 Mercury, and one needs tools when owning a automobile. As of today, I figure my Sears/Craftsman tools run about $23,500.00. I have about every tool that Sears has sold in their stores. My 40' x 40' garage/shop is full of Sears tools.
However, that all changed about three years ago when I was informed by my stock broker that Sears/Kmart was going to China/Taiwan to have their tool made. At that time I sold my 3,680 shares of Sears stock for I was warned my stock would take a dive, and it did.
I don't darken the doors of Sears anymore.
OP
Duck tape Bill
Well-known member
Ok, so first of all, I want to apologize to anyone who actually contributed to the post in a meaningful way... it seems there are a few people who just want to cause trouble and be a-holes about everything.
Second, I do agree with most people who think this was probably an item bought and returned (or replaced by unknowing/uncaring employees after people stole out of the packages). I also plan to return the ratchets tomorrow, and maybe they will have USA made ones to swap me for. I didn't intend this to be a big "made in USA is better" sort of thing, although it's really unavoidable in this case... I am a big supporter of buying USA, and I see no reason not to be!
...anyway, I hope you all have had a great holiday!
Second, I do agree with most people who think this was probably an item bought and returned (or replaced by unknowing/uncaring employees after people stole out of the packages). I also plan to return the ratchets tomorrow, and maybe they will have USA made ones to swap me for. I didn't intend this to be a big "made in USA is better" sort of thing, although it's really unavoidable in this case... I am a big supporter of buying USA, and I see no reason not to be!
...anyway, I hope you all have had a great holiday!
89MustangGX
Well-known member
I had my own "pay attention if you buy Craftsman" moment just a couple days ago.
I've been wanting a nice set of flare nut wrenches and saw a nice looking set on eBay. USA made Craftsman full-polished set (42012 & 42013). I prefer that over the raised panel which are also available. I studied them and checked prices and watched. I didn't pull the trigger because the auction actually got to be almost the exact same price as Sears is selling for now. So I figured I'd just pick them up locally, and I headed off to Sears after doing the buy online-pick up in store thing. Fooled myself because now all the sets available are lobster-claw China made sets. Too bad, I should have gone the eBay route. Maybe I'll post a WTB ad and hope to get lucky. Otherwise I'll be looking for another brand to pick up.
Adam
I've been wanting a nice set of flare nut wrenches and saw a nice looking set on eBay. USA made Craftsman full-polished set (42012 & 42013). I prefer that over the raised panel which are also available. I studied them and checked prices and watched. I didn't pull the trigger because the auction actually got to be almost the exact same price as Sears is selling for now. So I figured I'd just pick them up locally, and I headed off to Sears after doing the buy online-pick up in store thing. Fooled myself because now all the sets available are lobster-claw China made sets. Too bad, I should have gone the eBay route. Maybe I'll post a WTB ad and hope to get lucky. Otherwise I'll be looking for another brand to pick up.
Adam
OP
Duck tape Bill
Well-known member
Yea, I went to ebay too. Just found the US made set of the ratchets, new, for less then the set I bought the other day... I did pull the trigger, free shipping too, so I figured I'll get what I wanted for less anyway. I'll go return my imposter set tomorrow when the store by me opens.
shoturtle
Well-known member
They are not made in china, they are made in taiwan. Big difference.
sberry
Banned
I don'tknow about the polished ones but the flare wrenches of old were less than shining stars, probably the one other thing besides the ratchet that has been less than satisfactory. I really havnt bought much lately but 25 yrs ago the sockets had a problem, woukldnt want to take a set on a mooon mission without stress testing. Seemed 2 or 3 out of a hundred, maybe more, don't recall exact but they failed right out of the box, had a 13 fail the other day, might have already been busted, found another one and it gave it up too, sorted thru a bucket for some old China or Tiawan and it worked.
As for the sockets these days they seem fine especially at the cost, right there with cheap imports, for a guy not worried about impressing other mechanics they would be on my short list if I had to start over. Sell the ratchets on ebay and go to HF for replacements.
As for the sockets these days they seem fine especially at the cost, right there with cheap imports, for a guy not worried about impressing other mechanics they would be on my short list if I had to start over. Sell the ratchets on ebay and go to HF for replacements.
I have some concerns with your approach to forum discussions, based on this thread and others.
You seem to think you know why people choose to support USA manufacturing; even if you're incorrect, that's your business.
You also seem to think it's ok for product labeling not to match the contents of a package. Ok.
But if you continue to insult people, call them foolish and all that, then you will be in violation of the rules here.
Instead of giving you infractions, I am trying to talk to you and let you know what the problem is.
Neuswede
Well-known member
Ouch! Really?
At the current rate of decline in our manufacturing output, we are headed for some serious economic issues. We can expect to see our GDP equal our energy consumption in less than 15 years unless we actually begin to manufacturer things here at home. Buying American products isn't just some trendy marketing phrase. It's a matter of our very economic survival. Personally, I have a hard time supporting a Communist regime with a history of human rights violations et al.
Regarding Sears, they were involved in 2 FTC lawsuits that they lost. Once back in 1979, and another in 1996. Both times they were misleading consumers on the use of "Made in the USA". There is a current attempt at 'America's Most Trusted Brand" claiming it too is misleading. The Judge hearing the case will not give it Class Action status, and it was likely to be tossed out, or may already have been tossed out.
jjjrmx5
Well-known member
LOL at "imposter set" comment DTBill.
Thanks Bull.
Sad to see it always comes to this. But yet---it always comes to this. I wonder why? Huh.
Ask any lawyer out there and they'll say it's a "fine print" world out there.
The Devil is in the details.
As is the bait and switch in this case.
The slim lines are great ratchets tho. But not Taiwanese made products for USA made prices.
Hellllllllooooo, Sears? Can ya here me?
TwoInch
Well-known member
jrsulo
Well-known member
The sk made ones ?????
jjjrmx5
Well-known member
not this again...
Sadly, I'm not bringing anything up "again".
LOLA lot of folks like the slim line design.
Hell, I own a full set of them. Not my go-to but very nice tools.
Even if made in Taiwan I thnk they are an adequate ratchet.
But-----It's all cost cutting. I understand that. But when I go to my local pizza restaurant and order a medium pizza and suddenly (but they noted in small print on the menu) that a medium piza used to be 16" and is now 12" ans a small pizza that was 12" is now 8" and it's MY fault for not knowing the change.
Hmmmmmm.
It's just math? Right. No fuss. No muss. Just shut up and pay. It's the same pizza. Just different. Right?
What's a few inches? And what's moving things offshore for tools? Right?
Play me for a fool and you don't get my business nor my hard earned money. Or if American Italian, monies. LOL.
If I order sausage and you give me ground beef and then keep telling me it's the same thing. Then you have the problem. Not me.
LOLOLOLOLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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Looks like this is something I may have too look out for in the future.
There is nothing with things being made in China, as long as you dont mark them made in USA.
i believe that yellow tape is also something that is perhaps put on returnded tools?
There is nothing with things being made in China, as long as you dont mark them made in USA.
i believe that yellow tape is also something that is perhaps put on returnded tools?
89MustangGX
Well-known member
Not sure if you referring to my post or not, but these clearly said Made in China.
That is disappointing. I never would have thought they would have issues even with the RP models. Especially these being in the polished "professional" line, I would think they would at least be "ok." But, it may not even be possible for me to get the US made ones anymore, which means I will be on the hunt for another brand at a reasonable price.
I'm not sure who made them. They looked very good in the pictures I saw, and very well could be SK. But if SK made them before, they're not making them now, as they are clearly stamped Made in China. And being that Sears kept the same model numbers, it's not even possible for me to search other stores for them without physically going and digging through every set and explaining to the associates how they are different.
Adam
TwoInch
Well-known member
just as a reminder, polished does not mean professional or "better" with craftsman.
the craftsman USA professional flare nut wrenches on ebay are great wrenches(SK). not comparable to the polished flare nut wrenches sold at sears now. you will not find USA made polished flare nuts digging in sears stores. dont waste your time
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TwoInch
Well-known member
Sadly, I'm not bringing anything up "again".
A lot of folks like the slim line design.
Hell, I own a full set of them. Not my go-to but very nice tools.
Even if made in Taiwan I thnk they are an adequate ratchet.
But-----It's all cost cutting. I understand that. But when I go to my local pizza restaurant and order a medium pizza and suddenly (but they noted in small print on the menu) that a medium piza used to be 16" and is now 12" ans a small pizza that was 12" is now 8" and it's MY fault for not knowing the change.
Hmmmmmm.
It's just math? Right. No fuss. No muss. Just shut up and pay. It's the same pizza. Just different. Right?
What's a few inches? And what's moving things offshore for tools? Right?
Play me for a fool and you don't get my business nor my hard earned money. Or if American Italian, monies. LOL.
If I order sausage and you give me ground beef and then keep telling me it's the same thing. Then you have the problem. Not me.
LOLOLOLOLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
i quoted a specific part of your post. which also has nothing to do with all this^^^ it has been hashed out a thousand times already on this forum.
selling tools in packaging that says USA, but contains taiwan tools is not cool. obviously
and i nearly guarantee it was the situation posted above, about someone switching packaging and returning, not sears bait and switch.taiwan tools at USA prices though? thirty something dollars is not USA prices for a ratchet. have you looked at USA ratchet prices? have you looked at taiwan or china ratchet prices?
seems to me, sears WAS selling USA ratchets at TAIWAN prices, and is NOW selling TAIWAN ratchets at TAIWAN prices.
all that **** you just spewed, irrelevant.
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OP
Duck tape Bill
Well-known member
No, it's just what they stuck on it when I bought it since you have to walk all the way through the store to get out... they closed the door at the tool area off about a year ago because too many things got stolen (probably where the USA ratchets in my package went).
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