building and English Wheel

building an English Wheel

I am building an english wheel to make some new panels for the 51 Chevy in the background. The metal for the frame started out life as a shipping frame for a John Deere cornhead. The smaller tubing is 2 X 4 X .25 and the larger tubing is 4 X 5 X .25. The larger pipe for the upper roller is 2 7/8" oilfield pipe and the inner pipe is 2 3/8" oilfield pipe. The 'feet' are 1/2" bolts that can be adjusted to make the frame level and solid. All the welds were done with my Millermatic 251 using .035 wire and C-25 shielding gas.

I have an air bag from my work truck that I am considering using to press the upper roller down onto the lower anvil. I would use an air pressure regulator to adjust the squeeze pressure of the rollers.

The back side of the frame will be fitted as an air-powered planishing hammer. I am researching my options for the PH.

As far as the rollers go, I hope to be able to build my own or I might splurge and buy some. I have a few ideas to try first, but I want to finish the frame first.

Any comments or suggestions are welcome!

Off to a great start! One suggestion is drilling a few holes in the frame and filling it with concrete. Did a friend's like that and it was like night and day for stiffness. Also, have you seen the roller kits on ebay? Sometimes you can get them pretty cheap.

That thing is gonna twist all over when you try and wheel on it. These things have to be SOLID. I've only wheeled on one wheel that was welded together with steel that I would give a passing mark. That's why the good ones are made of cast iron. These things need MASS. the best design is actually a "C" shape to hold rigidity. But I wish you the best of luck!

Could there be a couple of horizontal beams at the rear mast that could then hold gussets to the arms themselves to resist the twiting effect?

The commercial ones seem to be just a large C shape with angled cuts for the joints. Seems like they would twist too, but seem to be fine.

I think the hardest part is the rollers. Get those and the frame can be made the way you want.

Check this guy out, he is really good at shaping metal parts
http://www.lazzemetalshaping.com/

I would add a truss member to the back vertical, similar to below:




Here is a subforum with some pretty experienced guys in the metal shaping business. Register to see all of the photos

http://metalshapers.org/roundtable/forumdisplay.php?69-Wheeling-Machines&order=asc

Lots of good info here:
www.metalmeet.com

A good start. I can't comment on the air bag, I have seen air solenoids used successfully, not sure if I have ever seen bags used with success. But I have seen them talked about at the stage that you are at.

Frame stiffness... every single person I have ever met had a different opinion. Cast is not always stiffer. 100 years ago people made junk too. One of the greatest shapers I have ever met uses a cast frame from an old bandsaw. It actually has some flex, he like it that way.

The most common wheeling machines in the USA are made from rectangular tubing. This is the design I used:



I think the reason why so many use tubing is that it is readily available and easy to cut and weld. The C shape when used with thick wall rectangular tubing is probably the strongest design you can make, but many have built a truss style like the Metalace with success. If it ends up too flexible, throw some more metal at it!

Some people prefer flex, others want it stiff as they can get it. As long as your wheels stay aligned and don't flop over center, you will get use to using your machine. Someone else may not like it, just tell them to get their own!

One thing I see right away that I wouldn't like is the lower tool post. It's freaking HUGE! I would cut it down via pie-cuts so it matches the lower wheel mounting plate. Personally, I don't like totally vertical posts. They are fine for putting crowns in roof skins and such, but with small parts they tend to get in the way.

The thing that most people do is build it too big. I don't do roof skins, so I don't need a 40"+ wheel. Mine is 26" and gets me to the center of a 4' sheet. A 4' sheet is alot to handle by yourself constantly.

I see you joined and posted on MM.com, If you are serious about metal shaping and not just the discussion of metal shaping I would recommend allmetalshaping.com Those guys take it very, very serious. It's not a goof off site.

Good luck with your build!

CARS said:

A good start.



Good luck with your build!

Click to expand...

Thanks for those dimensions.....saves a lot of guess work. Hope to finally start mine soon.

THANK YOU to all the posters above!!!! I will consider all your suggestions and links. I will check out these other sites suggested and make some modifications/alterations as necessary.

Again, please feel free to make more suggestions!

I think much of it depends on the thickness of the tubing...and how quickly you want to make progress...slow down ...enjoy the experience...and do it right ...takes practice...

I made one very similar to CARS but mine is only 23" and I would go for the good EPAY wheels as suggested, You have some good sites suggested, Keep in mind you may want to add to the legs width and the backbone. Wish I would have built mine before the truck, but that is why I made mine as well realized I could have used it.

Per suggestions I beefed up the frame. I boxed in the upper arms and added some gusset plates to the lower part of the frame. Before I welded the lower frame gussets on I set up a dial indicator at the end of the lower horizontal frame, measuring the distance from the lower frame to the piece of tubing that sticks out from the vertical frame opposite the wheels. I used a porto-power and pulled the upper wheel frame closer to the lower anvil frame until the dial indicator read .020 deflection.

I then welded the gusset plates on while the frame was under tension. I am temporarily using a 1/2" bolt that just fits between the green upper wheel frame and the lower tube on the upper arm assembly. I have a nut screwed on the bolt and use a wrench to back the nut off the bolt, which acts as a jack and pushes the upper roller down, creating crushing force between the roller and the anvil.

I put about 35-40 ft/lbs of torque on the nut, and I can make some curves in 16 ga steel or aluminum, depending on the anvil I am using. The dial indicator indicates no deflection while wheeling at this tension. I was able to get the indicator to move but only with considerably more tension, somewhere on the order of 100 ft/lbs.

The upper wheel is an idler pulley from a G4 Minneapolis Moline pull-type combine manufactured in the early 50's. The flat 'anvil' is a ball bearing from a John Deere baler or combine. I also have a pillow block ball bearing that has a rounded outer race, which allows me to make curves. I used a green 60 grit roloc disc to slightly round the edges of the ball bearing. I was able to smooth out some small dents in a fender for my 51 Chevy in the background. The MM idler is about .005 - .010 out of round and is made of cast iron. The bearings I am toying with for anvils are all different too, so I am hoping to save a little OT money and buy a set of Hoosier wheels and anvils.

I drew a sketch of a preliminary design using a truck air bag to supply the downforce for the upper wheel. Not shown is a stop that would allow the upper anvil to travel down only so far, that way the stop sets the downpressure rather than the air bag itself. The orange scribble is a spring that would retract the air bag when deflated and allow for anvil changes or insertion of metal to be shaped.

I appreciate all interest and suggestions so far, so keep them coming!

I like the fact that you are creating this with a lot of stuff you had laying around. I hope it work well for you