Gonna hop on the Sears Bashing Bandwagon... Prybars no longer made in US by Wilde

Kracin · May 14, 2013

i think we should all go boycott sears, stand out in front and tell them we want our US made tools back, and just to kick them in the nuts, lets tell them that we want them to cost less than they are going to make off hiring american workers to make them!

that'll show em right?

it's a joke. just another end of the world scenario played out by the sears hate club on this board.

litng1 · May 14, 2013

Back on sears,looks like sockets are just about all made out of country.

litng1 from Bardstown ky.

Bull · May 14, 2013

buco said:
I feel for the workers at Wilde, this is very bad for them.

This is precisely why we had our "Wilde Wednesday" here a short while back. We want to raise awareness of the company and its products so that people can search them out and buy them from great places like HJE. No need to buy products from Sears if you don't support their philosophy. In the days of the internet, you can buy what you want from where you want.

Hiball · May 14, 2013

Bull said:
This is precisely why we had our "Wilde Wednesday" here a short while back. We want to raise awareness of the company and its products so that people can search them out and buy them from great places like HJE. No need to buy products from Sears if you don't support their philosophy. In the days of the internet, you can buy what you want from where you want.

Dont you have some Painting to do? Quit putting it off...

Kracin · May 14, 2013

NUTTSGT said:
Twinkies ?
Read the article in the link. .

http://www.alternet.org/corporate-a...ts-company-took-employees-pensions-and-put-it

i think this guy had it right

The worker, who spoke on the condition his name not be used, said he spoke out at the union meeting against going on strike. "I said, 'If you're unhappy with the situation, then you need to quit. There are people with responsibilities and mortgages. We all can't afford to strike,'" said the veteran who worked loading trucks.

i think it's funny that there is no mention of all the things that went on beforehand, like how hostess' union fought tooth and nail to seperate jobs that could have been done by one person, just to keep people on, and to give more jobs out. like having drivers and loaders being seperate, and having to have specific trucks for specific products sent out even if they weren't full.

i've been part of a union that is bound to kill itself, always fighting with the company for no reason, employess using it to their fullest advantage even when they are in the wrong. constantly trying to squeeze every dime out of the company. then complaining when the company tries to get something new in the next contract.

and i've been on the other side, where the work is better, the pay is better, there are less people griping about union related issues all day at work, there are far less little handbooks floating around. and surprisingly the union isn't 95%+ like the last company, but is far far less, like 45% union.... sometimes you have to be on the inside to understand.

i'm sure there are a few people here that could go on for hours about the greatness of unions, or how ****** they are. but the bottom line is that the company did start making paycuts, and they did try to get what they could before the company went under, but who cares, because both sides tried to do the same thing. in the end it was a failure for both sides.. a failure for the union to compromise and a failure for the company to compromise.

pipsters · May 14, 2013

Kracin said:
i think this guy had it right

i think it's funny that there is no mention of all the things that went on beforehand, like how hostess' union fought tooth and nail to seperate jobs that could have been done by one person, just to keep people on, and to give more jobs out. like having drivers and loaders being seperate, and having to have specific trucks for specific products sent out even if they weren't full.

i've been part of a union that is bound to kill itself, always fighting with the company for no reason, employess using it to their fullest advantage even when they are in the wrong. constantly trying to squeeze every dime out of the company. then complaining when the company tries to get something new in the next contract.

and i've been on the other side, where the work is better, the pay is better, there are less people griping about union related issues all day at work, there are far less little handbooks floating around. and surprisingly the union isn't 95%+ like the last company, but is far far less, like 45% union.... sometimes you have to be on the inside to understand.

i'm sure there are a few people here that could go on for hours about the greatness of unions, or how ****** they are. but the bottom line is that the company did start making paycuts, and they did try to get what they could before the company went under, but who cares, because both sides tried to do the same thing. in the end it was a failure for both sides.. a failure for the union to compromise and a failure for the company to compromise.

Hostess had much bigger issues. The company was flipped by private equity companies increasing its debt time and time again. The company had a debt problem not a labor cost problem. In the end, just like all management, cuts are made to labor because it's easier to cut labor costs than debt costs.

Hiball · May 14, 2013

pipsters said:
Hostess had much bigger issues. The company was flipped by private equity companies increasing its debt time and time again. The company had a debt problem not a labor cost problem. In the end, just like all management, cuts are made to labor because it's easier to cut labor costs than debt costs.

Thanks for actually giving some "Accurate" information about the Hostess/Labor issues.. Americans love Cake, It wasnt a Issue that the Brand wasnt selling..

What this has to do with Sears... or there Taiwan Pry bars? Dunno....

ngk22r · May 14, 2013

Hiball said:
Thanks for actually giving some "Accurate" information about the Hostess/Labor issues.. Americans love Cake, It wasnt a Issue that the Brand wasnt selling..

What this has to do with Sears... or there Taiwan Pry bars? Dunno....

It has to do with the fact the high cost of American labor due to mostly union jobs that shot up the price of making parts which companies have to look overseas to compete with other stores that took their customers.

MN Falcon · May 14, 2013

Hiball said:
Buy the Wilde OEM from Epsteins... Fack Sears

http://store.harryepstein.com/search?q=wilde+pry+bar

Thanks for the post. I have been looking into getting some prybars for myself and my son. I keep eying up the HF ones because they are dirt cheap and I find that I don't get over to Sears much anymore.

I did a quick search over at Sears and maybe its just their website, but I am not finding a 3 pc set like others were talking about, maybe I was reading more into some of the posts about people possibly duplicating sizes. For those $20 specials what sizes would you get?

I did see this 5pc set for $53.99, but unfortunately Hiball's link doesn't include an 8" prybar to compare prices directly, so I just threw in the 36" so I have 5pcs also. $50.50. Thanks for pointing that out Hiball, no sense going to Sears for these for sure.

Hiball · May 14, 2013

ngk22r said:
It has to do with the fact the high cost of American labor due to mostly union jobs that shot up the price of making parts which companies have to look overseas to compete with other stores that took their customers.

Lol.. ---->> over your head.. What does Sears changing the Supplier from Wilde to overseas have to do with unions? Again? Explain...

I think you Union blabber is is so outdated, it should be illegal to even type on the Internet.. Obviously your entitled to your reasoning, I would just think you would like to at least give a "Recent" example.. Yes the cost of doing business is the US is substantial but to continue to blame the 17-22% of union workers (that include the public and private sector) on companies putting offshore products on the shelf is Well... Uniformed IMO. It's all about Greed.. Blame capitalism whatever...

This is not the venue for Union talk, I have no doubt this thread will be locked once Ryan see it.. If you would like to further discuss The big bad unions, send me a PM. I'm not against rational discussions, I prefer that my discussion partner does bring some individual cases with accurate information though. The broad "blame the Unions" isn't gonna cut it..

EdJack · May 14, 2013

I'm just afraid to use those HF pry bars. At least with the Wilde pry bars I figure I'll still get to keep my fingers and eyes after the job is done. Something I'm not getting the warm and fuzzy from the HF ones. If you decide on getting the HF pry bars, please remember to wear mechanics gloves and eye protection.

TwoInch · May 14, 2013

i was going to post something like "man that *****, i have them in all sizes, and wont ever warranty them blah blah blah"

then i realized that i bought mine, which are wildes, from epsteins quite some time ago for less than sears sells them for on sale. :thumbup:

screw em. sad to hear wilde lost the contract though.

EdJack · May 14, 2013

I got the 3 piece Craftsman set when it was 20 bucks.

I think I'm going to order the 31" and 36" from Epsteins to round off my set.

jsackin · May 14, 2013

First, it's sad (but not surprising) that Craftsman has taken another step toward imported tools. In the same breath I will say that, while we don't have the reach that Sears does, we have sold more Wilde tools in the last year then ever before, thanks in large part to Bull and everyone here.

In terms of unions, chinese manufacturing, and everything else, I would ask, "How do you compete with a country that has hardly any manufacturing regulations?" The answer is that you don't. Unregulated manufacturing is unsupportable. China is waking up to this fact, as its growing middle class is increasingly unhappy with living in toxic cities with life threatening air pollution.

Middle class Chinese people want exactly what middle class Americans want, which is to give their children a brighter future. There is no bright future in cities where cancer rates are rising dramatically. We are currently living in the Chinese awakening. They are realizing that while unregulated manufacturing might have brought them out of poverty, it can not continue. Once regulations set in, prices will go up (as we've already seen happen). As prices go up and fuel costs rise, it will become less and less attractive to manufacture and ship from China.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that while large corporations are continuing to move overseas (Sears, Apex, Irwin) the trend will be for manufacturing to start moving back to the US, supported largely by small business and small manufacturers. More than ever people are becoming aware of the moral implications of being a consumer. We, ourselves, are waking up to the fact that continuing down the path of "as cheap as possible" has huge economic and social effects here in our country, and in other parts of the world. The factory collapse in Bangladesh is the most recent example of the direct result of this "as cheap as possible" mentality. It is up to the American consumers (and manufacturers) to educate each other. Cheap prices aren't cheap. Not for us and not for the rest of the world.

Jori

Harry J. Epstein Co.

biscuit141 · May 14, 2013

Hiball said:
Buy the Wilde OEM from Epsteins... Fack Sears

http://store.harryepstein.com/search?q=wilde+pry+bar

I would but I have about $160 in gift cards to use before Sears offshores all it's tools.

Kracin · May 14, 2013

pipsters said:
Hostess had much bigger issues. The company was flipped by private equity companies increasing its debt time and time again. The company had a debt problem not a labor cost problem. In the end, just like all management, cuts are made to labor because it's easier to cut labor costs than debt costs.

thats part of it, but what do you think happened when they tried to make cuts and the union decided they didn't want any of it?

it didn't all happen overnight, which some people seem to think it did

Kracin · May 14, 2013

Hiball said:
Lol.. ---->> over your head.. What does Sears changing the Supplier from Wilde to overseas have to do with unions? Again? Explain...

I think you Union blabber is is so outdated, it should be illegal to even type on the Internet.. Obviously your entitled to your reasoning, I would just think you would like to at least give a "Recent" example.. Yes the cost of doing business is the US is substantial but to continue to blame the 17-22% of union workers (that include the public and private sector) on companies putting offshore products on the shelf is Well... Uniformed IMO. It's all about Greed.. Blame capitalism whatever...

This is not the venue for Union talk, I have no doubt this thread will be locked once Ryan see it.. If you would like to further discuss The big bad unions, send me a PM. I'm not against rational discussions, I prefer that my discussion partner does bring some individual cases with accurate information though. The broad "blame the Unions" isn't gonna cut it..

i blame the consumer more than anything else. sears was known for supplying a wide variety of quality things at a very reasonable price for the longest time.

as time progressed, and they have had more competition show up with low priced but still "quality" (in the average public's eyes). they had to do something to stay competative in the area they specialize in. and this is what happened. if people thought like they used to, there wouldn't be a push to move things overseas. buy it once use it for life. but most things these days are disposable, even big screen tv's have a very limited life span

i still buy from them because they are still one of the best places that you can go to that is within any major city (and a lot of smaller ones too). and find damn near any tool you need, a price you can afford to pay still without it causing you too much worry about quality. otherwise others are forced to find a truck dealer and pay a much much higher price for something to do a minor job. or they have to purchase it online and wait on shipping when they might need it today.

pipsters · May 14, 2013

Kracin said:
thats part of it, but what do you think happened when they tried to make cuts and the union decided they didn't want any of it?

it didn't all happen overnight, which some people seem to think it did

Management at the top stole from the union plain and simple. Management got their bonuses, then turned around and cried a river stating the employees were now too expensive. Goes both ways. At least the union took a stand. I have a lot of respect for them. In America though we seem to secretly wish harm on those we think are doing better than us, and will step on our mothers to get ahead.

Kracin · May 14, 2013

pipsters said:
Management at the top stole from the union plain and simple. Management got their bonuses, then turned around and cried a river stating the employees were now too expensive. Goes both ways. At least the union took a stand. I have a lot of respect for them. In America though we seem to secretly wish harm on those we think are doing better than us, and will step on our mothers to get ahead.

i've seen unions steal from companies using sneaky tactics to their advantage, it's not a one way street all the time when it comes to company vs union

zer0cell · May 14, 2013

I always check when a tool is made before I buy it, but thanks for the heads up. Obviously epsteins is the place to buy these now.

The Ratchet Man · May 14, 2013

So what is the COO of Twinkies now... :headscrat

Desperately trying to relate Twinkies and prybars but failing miserably.

ihateminimumwage · May 14, 2013

jsackin said:
First, it's sad (but not surprising) that Craftsman has taken another step toward imported tools. In the same breath I will say that, while we don't have the reach that Sears does, we have sold more Wilde tools in the last year then ever before, thanks in large part to Bull and everyone here.

In terms of unions, chinese manufacturing, and everything else, I would ask, "How do you compete with a country that has hardly any manufacturing regulations?" The answer is that you don't. Unregulated manufacturing is unsupportable. China is waking up to this fact, as its growing middle class is increasingly unhappy with living in toxic cities with life threatening air pollution.

Middle class Chinese people want exactly what middle class Americans want, which is to give their children a brighter future. There is no bright future in cities where cancer rates are rising dramatically. We are currently living in the Chinese awakening. They are realizing that while unregulated manufacturing might have brought them out of poverty, it can not continue. Once regulations set in, prices will go up (as we've already seen happen). As prices go up and fuel costs rise, it will become less and less attractive to manufacture and ship from China.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that while large corporations are continuing to move overseas (Sears, Apex, Irwin) the trend will be for manufacturing to start moving back to the US, supported largely by small business and small manufacturers. More than ever people are becoming aware of the moral implications of being a consumer. We, ourselves, are waking up to the fact that continuing down the path of "as cheap as possible" has huge economic and social effects here in our country, and in other parts of the world. The factory collapse in Bangladesh is the most recent example of the direct result of this "as cheap as possible" mentality. It is up to the American consumers (and manufacturers) to educate each other. Cheap prices aren't cheap. Not for us and not for the rest of the world.

Jori

Harry J. Epstein Co.

Very well said.

Super Sport · May 14, 2013

This only proves that Sears is the company looking to send production overseas. It was not an Apex/Danaher decision but Sears after all. It also shows that they will probably continue to move production overseas as contracts expire. Who knows, Western Forge could be next with the adjustables, screwdrivers, etc. I said it before, there isn't any point to keep any line of tools here when the main line is already made overseas.

This is quite sad, but some of us saw it coming.

NC-Fordguy · May 14, 2013

I bought a few prybars at Sears friends and family night a couple weeks back. Still USA sourced then.

This development ***** but it's not surprising. Lowes, Home Depot, Auto Zone etc long ago outsourced their stuff.

MN Falcon · May 14, 2013

Thanks, I was only really "thinking" about the HF ones and didn't really look into any other brands. I have read a lot of good things about buying from Epstein's. I am definitely in for a set of Wilde prybars from Epstein. I always seem to be grabbing the wrong tool for this type of job.

What timing on this thread.

jsackin said:
First, it's sad (but not surprising) that Craftsman has taken another step toward imported tools. In the same breath I will say that, while we don't have the reach that Sears does, we have sold more Wilde tools in the last year then ever before, thanks in large part to Bull and everyone here.

In terms of unions, chinese manufacturing, and everything else, I would ask, "How do you compete with a country that has hardly any manufacturing regulations?" The answer is that you don't. Unregulated manufacturing is unsupportable. China is waking up to this fact, as its growing middle class is increasingly unhappy with living in toxic cities with life threatening air pollution.

Middle class Chinese people want exactly what middle class Americans want, which is to give their children a brighter future. There is no bright future in cities where cancer rates are rising dramatically. We are currently living in the Chinese awakening. They are realizing that while unregulated manufacturing might have brought them out of poverty, it can not continue. Once regulations set in, prices will go up (as we've already seen happen). As prices go up and fuel costs rise, it will become less and less attractive to manufacture and ship from China.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that while large corporations are continuing to move overseas (Sears, Apex, Irwin) the trend will be for manufacturing to start moving back to the US, supported largely by small business and small manufacturers. More than ever people are becoming aware of the moral implications of being a consumer. We, ourselves, are waking up to the fact that continuing down the path of "as cheap as possible" has huge economic and social effects here in our country, and in other parts of the world. The factory collapse in Bangladesh is the most recent example of the direct result of this "as cheap as possible" mentality. It is up to the American consumers (and manufacturers) to educate each other. Cheap prices aren't cheap. Not for us and not for the rest of the world.

Jori

Harry J. Epstein Co.

zer0cell · May 14, 2013

For what its worth, Home Depot does have more USA made hand tools than just about any other big tool/hardware store. Levels, hammers, pliers, snips, tape measures and utility knives (partially USA), screwdrivers, nut drivers, hole saws, reciprocating saw blades... the list goes on. Lowes, by comparison does have a small selection of USA hammers (only Vaughan) and a few channellock pliers and maybe a few other misc things but they are much more limited. Sears still has a pretty decent amount of USA made products... but the trend seems to be that their lineup of USA tools is shrinking rather quickly.

buco · May 14, 2013

ngk22r said:
Can anyone name a big American tool company who doesnt have something made overseas??

Yes the times have changed but when it comes down to it, its economics. Sears and other companies have to do what they can to survive otherwise they will fail and unfortunately they have to look to the companies overseas to make their product. And why is that? Because when the general public goes to Sears they are going to buy a tool at less cost then compared to Snap-on, MAC, Cornwell, and Matco. They have to compete with Harbor Frieght and most of that market that Sears had has gone to HF because you can get so good tools from there at a cheapier price. Sure American jobs are on the line but unfortunately the unions have put a HUGE grip on the cost of manufacturing which in turn raises the cost of making tools, cars, and the good ol ******* (and for the ******* almost got cometely killed off due to the unions.

This debate has gone on and on in this forum and else where about "Chinese" made tools in all these different tool companies but you guys can thank yourselves for all of this happening since the American way is to get the most of your money... And the competition to these companies fighting for your business to save you your hard earned money wouldnt happen if people werent looking at the price of the tool. Dont believe me, walk into a HF store and you will see that is always has people in there buying products from them, walk into the tool section at Sears and you might see a couple people in there.

I don't get it. When I go to Sears in Buffalo it's all Chinese stuff there too. No one in Sears as well, not just the tool section. The whole department store model is incredibly outdated.

The only thing Sears makes money on is appliances. This came from a senior guy for Sears here in Canada. It will either cater to that or just cease to exist in a few years.

Also, I don't see how Unions have anything to do with people being cheap. If you want a quality tool, spend some money. Leave it to your kid, God willing that's what I want to do.

Also, the European Union tool companies do just fine. Knipex, Nws, Stahlwille, Hazet, PB Swiss etc have been around a long time and will be.

It's not a Union thing, IMHO.

buco · May 14, 2013

litng1 said:
Come on now don't blame unions for this.
Problem is people buying the harbor freight type stuff.
We as americans can't and do not want to compete with china on wages, Benifits or numerous other things that give them the advantage.
Please don't blame a decent paying job.

litng1 from Bardstown ky.

Bump +1

EdJack · May 14, 2013

If Harry Epstein would lower shipping prices just a bit, I think they would see a boom in business.

Most comments I hear about Harry Epstein is they love the products, love the amount of made in USA selection, but hate the shipping prices.

buening · May 14, 2013

It also ***** for those that buy the higher quality US Craftsman tools and should a warranty exchange be needed, the consumer gets stuck with a new inferior chicom tool. Not exactly what we signed up for when originally buying the tool.

jmm · May 14, 2013

OGJordan said:
While it ***** for the few hundred people on this website, it's definitely not a "bad move for Sears". I bet 5 people a week tops turn a box over at any Sears to see if it's Made in USA marked. And every other post on GJ is about how recent Sears US made sockets/ratchets ****, the Kobalt line at lowes is at least a little better quality than everything at Sears and has been for years.

What about the staff at Wilde in Kansas, and their families? I'd say that ***** for them too.

Have you ever looked at Craftsmans Facebook page? It's hard not to notice the negative comments, all echoing the same sentiment. Diehards on Garagejournal aren't the only ones...

metaldad · May 14, 2013

I am not going to enter the argument of unions killing off industry.
Jori made some very good points, about the market.
No one has made a mention, of how many businesses the USA EPA has hampered/ closed down. Yeah, we gotta be green - at what cost? Chase all industry across the big pond, where there is no regulation, and wind up breathing worse air because of it?

metaldad · May 14, 2013

And, I bought the HF pry bars in a pinch.
Pure junk. Smack the handle with a hammer and it bursts into shrapnel.
Bend the tips with little force.
Wound up buying the Cman /Wilde set(s)

oilfieldtrash4 · May 14, 2013

Not all unions are bad. A relative of mine works a union job. All the union does is make sure they aren't getting screwed over. They are just making sure they are paid fair wages for the industry and good benefits.
I definitely don't agree with the ones where guys get paid $40 a hour for stuff that doesn't require a huge amount of skill.

Hootbro · May 14, 2013

buco said:
...................
Also, the European Union tool companies do just fine. Knipex, Nws, Stahlwille, Hazet, PB Swiss etc have been around a long time and will be.

It's not a Union thing, IMHO.

European Unions are a totally different animal. Most of what the Unions fight for here in the USA, is already labor law in those countries and they do not have to renegotiate those terms at each contract renewal.

Also, those European Unions do not fight automation and process improvements like they do here in the USA. So those European tool companies get more bang for their buck in terms of first time quality and per unit cost.

Jcc76 · May 14, 2013

I'm mixed when it comes to Unions. They serve a purpose, and they're largely responsible for securing benefits and workers' rights that many of us take for granted.

That being said, the most powerful Union in this country is the SEIU, and they're all a bunch of office workers. A lot of large unions are run by executives and higher-level people with large salaries who have never worked a day in their lives on a shop floor. Those people tend to be in the fight to increase their own benefits and salaries, not necessarily those of the workers they claim to represent.

But the Unions are sort of a red-herring to the "Made in China" issue. I don't think Mexico has Unions, nor do they have the same Government regulations that you see in the United States. Yet, outside of DeWalt and Dremel, how many tool companies make stuff in Mexico and Central America?

Most likely the reason is because these companies don't want to pay a Mexican in Mexico $5.00-$8.00 per hour to make tools when they can pay a Chinese peasant in China $1.00-$2.00 per hour.

So Corporate Greed is a big factor too.

Brownsfan · May 14, 2013

zer0cell said:
For what its worth, Home Depot does have more USA made hand tools than just about any other big tool/hardware store. Levels, hammers, pliers, snips, tape measures and utility knives (partially USA), screwdrivers, nut drivers, hole saws, reciprocating saw blades... the list goes on. Lowes, by comparison does have a small selection of USA hammers (only Vaughan) and a few channellock pliers and maybe a few other misc things but they are much more limited. Sears still has a pretty decent amount of USA made products... but the trend seems to be that their lineup of USA tools is shrinking rather quickly.

Don't forget the large Klein selection and channellock. Both are my pliers of choice.

metaldad · May 14, 2013

Jcc76 said:
But the Unions are sort of a red-herring to the "Made in China" issue. I don't think Mexico has Unions, nor do they have the same Government regulations that you see in the United States. Yet, outside of DeWalt and Dremel, how many tool companies make stuff in Mexico and Central America?

Most likely the reason is because these companies don't want to pay a Mexican in Mexico $5.00-$8.00 per hour to make tools when they can pay a Chinese peasant in China $1.00-$2.00 per hour.

So Corporate Greed is a big factor too.

Porter Cable labels at least some of their electric tools as messican, which was the deciding factor when I bought a palm sander last month. Everyone else was pacific rim.

litng1 · May 14, 2013

Was in sears today getting stuff replaced under warranty.
Guy in front of me bought a 3/8 china rachet I told him its a shame it's all imported now.
He said I don't care it has a life time warranty.I said you would care if it was your job being shipped out.He just walked out.

litng1 from Bardstown ky.

litng1 · May 14, 2013

I noticed even the socket sets are imported now.

litng1 from Bardstown ky.

Gonna hop on the Sears Bashing Bandwagon... Prybars no longer made in US by Wilde

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