motor controller

hh76 · May 5, 2013

I'm in the process of cleaning up an old drill press/ mill (AB Arboga EM825), and have a question about wiring. I'm now realizing how little I know about motors, and controls.

It's 3ph, that I'm going to power through a VFD.

The factory setup has the motor wired for two speeds. Where do I wire in the VFD?

The way I figure, I have three options:
1. Wire in on the line side of the current, two speed switch.
2. Wire directly to the high speed motor taps, eliminating the factory switch
3. Wire directly to the low speed taps, eliminating the factory switch

I'd prefer to wire directly to the motor, allowing me to mount the remote control for the VFD in place of the existing Two speed switch. If I do this, I assume I would wire directly to the high speed motor taps (option 2), and use the speed control of the VFD to bring me down to the lower speeds. Would doing this limit me? Would I be giving up some of the motor potential by not utilizing the low speed motor taps?

mrbreezeet1 · May 5, 2013

You have to wire from the VFD right to the Motor.
I don't know how the motor is wired, does it have a way to wire for low speed or high speed? If so, you may want to try it both ways.
They say you need to watch your motor temperature at low HZ.
But you DO NOT want any type of switch in between the VFD and the Motor.

mrbreezeet1 · May 5, 2013

Does this machine only have the 2 speeds or is there belts and or gearing involved?
They say you want to still change speeds with your belts, using the VFD frequency control for more of a fine tuning.

hh76 · May 5, 2013

mrbreezeet1 said:
You have to wire from the VFD right to the Motor.
I don't know how the motor is wired, does it have a way to wire for low speed or high speed? If so, you may want to try it both ways.
They say you need to watch your motor temperature at low HZ.
But you DO NOT want any type of switch in between the VFD and the Motor.

It can be wired for high or low speed, the factory setup switched between them.

mrbreezeet1 said:
Does this machine only have the 2 speeds or is there belts and or gearing involved?
They say you want to still change speeds with your belts, using the VFD frequency control for more of a fine tuning.

The machine has a geared head, so it has a total of 6 speeds I believe.

mrbreezeet1 · May 5, 2013

I would try it with both wiring options then. Hi and Low.
My motor only had options for 220 0r 440 once wired up for either ,you have L1 L2 and L3. Plus a ground.
The main thing is not to wire anything between your motor and the VFD.
What kind of VFD did you get?
I got a TECO JNEV 101 H1 It runs off of 110 volt input.

Grumpy365 · May 5, 2013

What kind of VFD?

Not all VFD's will get you from single phase to 3 phase.

When you look at the terminal makers / wiring diagram on the VFD you should understand a little clearer.

hh76 · May 5, 2013

Grumpy365 said:
What kind of VFD?

Not all VFD's will get you from single phase to 3 phase.

When you look at the terminal makers / wiring diagram on the VFD you should understand a little clearer.

Not sure of the model number, but it is a 1hp from automation direct.

It is single phase 120v to 3ph.

mrbreezeet1 · May 5, 2013

I don't think there is, but has any one run across a 110 volt input, 3 phase output,
2 HP VFD.

Norcal · May 5, 2013

hh76 said:
Not sure of the model number, but it is a 1hp from automation direct.

It is single phase 120v to 3ph.

Be aware that GFCI's do not seem to like VFD's. If problems w/ tripping occur hardwiring the drive w/ a proper disconnect is one way around it. Also switching the output of the drive while running is a good way to let the "magic smoke" out.

Grumpy365 · May 5, 2013

http://www.automationdirect.com/static/specs/gs1drives.pdf

Page 4, 5, 6 of 12 Shows a pretty good diagram showing which wires go to the motor.

L1 goes to 120

T1, T2, T3 go straight to the motor

hh76 · May 5, 2013

Grumpy365 said:
http://www.automationdirect.com/static/specs/gs1drives.pdf

Page 4, 5, 6 of 12 Shows a pretty good diagram showing which wires go to the motor.

L1 goes to 120

T1, T2, T3 go straight to the motor

Understood, but I'm asking which input on the motor. Either the high rpm, the low, or leave the switch in place, which would allow me to go between.

laser3kw · May 6, 2013

the motor is a 1hp 120v 3ph?
is there such a thing?

Norcal · May 6, 2013

laser3kw said:
the motor is a 1hp 120v 3ph?
is there such a thing?

The VFD is 1 HP 120V input, 240V 3Ø output.

hh76 · May 6, 2013

Norcal said:
The VFD is 1 HP 120V input, 240V 3Ø output.

Correct.

hh76 · May 6, 2013

Here is a diagram.

Should I wire the VFD output to

M1, M2, M3?
B1, B2, B3?
or 2, 5, 14

CJCar · May 7, 2013

You may need to keep the switch as it could well be shunting M1,M2,M3 when in high speed. You can map out your switch to see what it does. See here for more info: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/transformers-phase-converters-vfd/3-phase-2-speed-motor-wiring-need-help-247930/

Jagmandave · May 7, 2013

I think it will depend on what you're going to do with it - how high or how low of speed do you need? If the top speed on low isn't high enough, then you'll need to wire to the high speed side to get the motor to run at full speed.

OTOH if you do this it may not go slow enough without getting too warm.

Just depends on what you're going to do with it.

wyliesdiesels · May 8, 2013

I work with VFDs at work and most if not all VFDs do NOT like switches in between them and the motor! The VFD should be doing the speed control!

ddawg16 · May 8, 2013

Wire the VFD to the HIGH speed connections.

You could wire it to the low speed connections...but then, when the VFD is at full output....you still get the slow speed.

rsanter · May 8, 2013

ok, so if I read you correct you have a switch that is like a 3 way where you can switch to the low speed or the high speed or off electrically.....
if this is the case then the switch is currently correctly wired to electrically do this. then you can wire to the switch and use it to allow multi range eletrically after the VFD

this tells me that the motor is capable of extended run times in the slower speed without heating up too much.

I thi9nk I would leave the switch in place and leave it on the high range most of the time and only change to low when really needed. the rest of the time I think the VFD would sufficiently vary your speed for your usage

bob

mrbreezeet1 · May 9, 2013

ddawg16 said:
Wire the VFD to the HIGH speed connections.

You could wire it to the low speed connections...but then, when the VFD is at full output....you still get the slow speed.

Full output, meaning 60 HZ?? If 60 HZ, yes, that is true.
But even wired to the slow speed at the motor, at 120 HZ it should be double the low speed of the motor .
I would think at least.

hh76 · May 9, 2013

I appreciate everyone's responses, but I think it may not matter. I don't think I can fit the remote keypad in the space that the original switch occupies, so ill just find another, and leave the switch as is. I'll wire to the line side of the switch.

mrbreezeet1 · May 9, 2013

I think, just my opinion though, if you do that , you should shut everything off, and power down the VFD (remove input power to the VFD) before you switch between hi and low range.

laser3kw · May 10, 2013

fab a small panel out of your favorite material and mount the keypad in a accessable location.

hh76 · May 10, 2013

mrbreezeet1 said:
I think, just my opinion
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though, if you do that , you should shut everything off, and power down the VFD (remove input power to the VFD) before you switch between hi and low range.

laser3kw said:
fab a small panel out of your favorite material and mount the keypad in a accessable location.

This is the plan.

mrbreezeet1 · May 10, 2013

hh76 said:
This is the plan.

let us know how it works out.

logixjock · May 10, 2013

mrbreezeet1 said:
I think, just my opinion though, if you do that , you should shut everything off, and power down the VFD (remove input power to the VFD) before you switch between hi and low range.

You don't have to remove input power, just hit the stop switch and wait for the drive to register 0hz.

jerryd68 · May 13, 2013

I dont see what the issue is with the switch, we wire lock out disconnects into the output circuit between the vfd and motor all the time, it make a very good trouble shooting accessory. Open the LO disconnect and see if the drive still provides 60hz.

hh76 · May 14, 2013

jerryd68 said:
I dont see what the issue is with the switch, we wire lock out disconnects into the output circuit between the vfd and motor all the time, it make a very good trouble shooting accessory. Open the LO disconnect and see if the drive still provides 60hz.

My vfd states that using a switch for run/stop control will reduce its life span.

I'm not sure how it would react if you powered it up while the load side was disconnected.

bseant · May 18, 2013

wouldn't it be easier for the op to run the vfd directly to the motor in high and use a potentiometer to do the speed controlling? he could then wire the speed pot in the existing switch location?

Milton Shaw · May 18, 2013

If you do mostly wood working then wire to the high speed. If mostly metal working you need the lower speeds. It depends on what your use is going to be. I have a two speed motor from an old washer on my drill press and use it like that depending on what I am doing. I did put a foot pedal on the motor to be able to operate motor with both hands on workpiece. I also leave the belt loose enough so that bit hang ups are not full 1/2 horse throw abouts. I have a mill drill for heavy metal drilling with big vises and hold-downs. The old craftsman is used just for quick small holes in wood/thin metal.

wyliesdiesels · May 20, 2013

bseant said:
wouldn't it be easier for the op to run the vfd directly to the motor in high and use a potentiometer to do the speed controlling? he could then wire the speed pot in the existing switch location?

Yes, thats a great idea! Dont know why i didnt suggest this myself! I just wired up a potentiometer onto a VFD to control a 30hp irrigation pump!

hh76 · May 23, 2013

bseant said:
wouldn't it be easier for the op to run the vfd directly to the motor in high and use a potentiometer to do the speed controlling? he could then wire the speed pot in the existing switch location?

That may be the way I go in the future. For now, I just figure I'll use the control pad supplied with the VFD. I'm mounting it on the side of the pedestal, which will be a decent spot for it. I just cut up a mounting piece made for a different machine to make a flush mount for it, an I'll give it a quick spray when I put the machine back together.

I fired it up for the first time, and it spun, so I'm might be getting close to actually being able to use it.

dbonne · May 23, 2013

^^Sweet Installation^^

Nice integration, hope it works as good as it looks!

hh76 · May 29, 2013

Well, it works, and I have a little bit of aluminum shavings to prove it. Other than turning a new handle for the drill feed and cleaning up the table, I'm calling it done.

wyliesdiesels · Jun 2, 2013

Awesome!

motor controller

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