The economy and theft/security

CarCrafter · Nov 19, 2009

nathank said:
This is exactly the question they posed to us in the Texas concealed handgun course. The instructor told us that if you shoot someone, kill or not, your looking at 15k minimum in legal fees right out of the gate.

Sometimes it's cheaper to replace the tools (I guess it depends on the toolbox)

Forget it, shoot the MF, we'll take up a collection here and donate to your legal defense fund. DREAM TEAM anyone??

ckgdrums · Nov 19, 2009

We were broken into January of this year. My wife, who is passive by nature, said that it would never be in her to shoot another human being. However, that tune has changed since she's experienced the burglary and the way it made her feel. She now says that she would have no problem ending someones life that is in our house bent on hurting someone in her family....and I, am very glad to hear that. Funny thing is, she shoots better than me now. LOL.

matt H · Nov 19, 2009

man, this makes me want to get my ccp and have a small firearm under my bed just in case...too bad my parents are very against the idea.

autoist · Nov 19, 2009

Here's the sign on the front of my garage:

Plus, everybody thinks I'm a crazy Vietnam & Desert Storm veteran!

sammerdog · Nov 19, 2009

dogs? cute signs? ccw permits?

That percy ding-ding **** won't get you very far in a ******** core town like Detroit or Flint.

They kinda raised the stakes up here while you guys were doing it "by the books".......

bahamasair · Nov 20, 2009

Tech Guy said:
What type of gate operators are you using ?

I use everything from FAAC to SEA. I've been using TAU for alot of residential places for a few years now and for the price they are great. They come with a backup battery which makes a big difference here since our power goes off at least twice a week.

ironroad 9c1 · Nov 20, 2009

sammerdog said:
dogs? cute signs? ccw permits?

That percy ding-ding **** won't get you very far in a ******** core town like Detroit or Flint.

They kinda raised the stakes up here while you guys were doing it "by the books".......

CarCrafter · Nov 20, 2009

matt H said:
man, this makes me want to get my ccp and have a small firearm under my bed just in case...too bad my parents are very against the idea.

When and if you are old enough, you'll have to learn to agree to disagree. I suppose if you are under their roof, that's their land and their law...

Some of us here are thumping our chests about personal defense, myself included, but make NO mistake, owning a gun and having a ccw permit is a responsibility we don't take lightly. If we had to shoot, its because we felt that was the only option. All the jokes aside, I hope I am never forced to cross that line. Most of us feel the same way.

Zrexxer · Nov 20, 2009

Vinko said:
I've been thinking about this too. I like what someone else suggested somewhere: a pair of visegrips on the rail. stop the door from moving.

I've used this technique for years. A couple of C-Clamp vise-grips in the tracks above the door. You'd have to physically tear the door sections apart to get in.

caper · Nov 20, 2009

Zrexxer said:
I've used this technique for years. A couple of C-Clamp vise-grips in the tracks above the door. You'd have to physically tear the door sections apart to get in.

Or just tear the plywood of the wall like they did at my place last month.

usmc_noma · Nov 20, 2009

speaking from experience, crime is definitely up in most if not all areas. it does not matter if you live in the city, suburb, or country. it's out there and everyone is a target.

easiest things for any criminal out there is an unsecured vehicle, building, shop, whatever. if it's open, then it's easy pickings. there's tons of larcenies from vehicles every night. i'd say 95%+ are unlocked. a lot of people feel secure since there hasn't been crime in their area before. well, times are changing, economy is going to ****, and people are becoming more and more desperate to make ends meet.

if you believe you may be a target, you probably already are. being prepared is good though. be sure to lock your doors. install lights to illuminate your access points. take pics of all your items and be as meticulous as you want your insurance company to cover any items stolen. start looking at your landscape. if you've got trees/bushes overgrown or blocking any view from the street, maybe think about thinning those out. all it is, is cover for any would be thief.

if you suspect a crime is being committed, call the police. they may not catch them but it will make them aware that a crime may have been or will be committed. get vehicle descriptions, tags, anything helpful in identifying a suspect.

also some advice on firearms, talk to your local law enforcement. in some places, you can be the one charged if you run out brandishing a firearm. there's also charges out there if you fire your weapon at a would be intruder, warning shot or not. last thing you'd want is to be the one charged for defending your own property. completely different if you're defending a person within your family.

stroked93 · Nov 20, 2009

My neighbor simply painted "there is nothing in this garage worth losing your life over" on his garage door in 12 inch letters. its worked so far.

Tech Guy · Nov 21, 2009

bahamasair said:
I use everything from FAAC to SEA. I've been using TAU for alot of residential places for a few years now and for the price they are great. They come with a backup battery which makes a big difference here since our power goes off at least twice a week.

Same types we are using. Lately we have been using the Chamberlain Elite Miracle 1

bahamasair · Nov 21, 2009

I really like the Miracle 1 but by the time we land it here it costs double what you pay for it so we don't sell many

adam728 · Nov 21, 2009

We recently moved to Arkansas. The neighbors here make it sounds like break-ins are a big problem here, and that anything left outside will disapear in a blink of an eye. Yet I can walk though the neighborhood and see bicycles, motorcycles, mowers, and even roll around tool boxes sitting in car ports. Must not be too bad yet.

I still don't take any chances.

Garage is always locked
Plus a packlock through the track, every time
Privacy tint on windows (added this morning, used cardboard previously)
Keep the door closed as much as possible
Park the truck or trailer in front of the door if I do need it open
Throw a towl over the dirt bike to help hide it when working with the door open

I probably have less money ******* in my entire garage (dirt bike, bicycles, tools, washer/dryer, parts, etc) than some guys have in one tool box, but I still don't want to loose it!

phy6 · Nov 22, 2009

If you do happen to defend yourself from an intruder/attacker:

Call the police
Put away the weapon, so the police that arrive will know you're not a threat

The only things to say:

I feared for my life.
I want that man arrested. (Even if the man is dead, act as though he's alive. The offender could somehow survive, and besides, the responding officer is not a medical examiner.)
I want to speak to my lawyer.

The reason being that if you go to court the officer can be asked "What did Mr. Smith say when you arrived?".
Asking to have the intruder arrested helps to place context in the jury's mind, who will probably be hearing BS sob stories about how the deceased 'was trying to turn his life around and do good'.

schultz · Nov 22, 2009

phy6 said:
If you do happen to defend yourself from an intruder/attacker:

Call the police

Put away the weapon, so the police that arrive will know you're not a threat

The only things to say:

I feared for my life.

I want that man arrested. (Even if the man is dead, act as though he's alive. The offender could somehow survive, and besides, the responding officer is not a medical examiner.)

I want to speak to my lawyer.

The reason being that if you go to court the officer can be asked "What did Mr. Smith say when you arrived?".
Asking to have the intruder arrested helps to place context in the jury's mind, who will probably be hearing BS sob stories about how the deceased 'was trying to turn his life around and do good'.

Advise to follow definitely!

I have already had a run in with a prowler on my property and he came real close to not making it off my land, Needless to say after 20 rnds from my AR15 he probably had to go home and clean his shorts. Living out in the sticks has it's perks and drawbacks, Your not immune to crime and LE will not be here in minutes when you need them. However most folks around me tend to watch out for each other and there have been several crimes adverted because of it. I always open carry on my property regardless of whose here and my thought is if you don't like it leave that simple.

MN4x4 · Oct 31, 2010

jmack said:
When structured markets like eBay exist where you can carry out the transaction without buyer and seller ever meeting face to face, why not take advantage of it?

Ebay is a joke, and not a funny one. I was a PowerSeller for years and sold a quarter of a million dollars on ebay in 2001, with over 3,000 positive feedback points. I stopped selling there a couple years ago when ebay started making ridiculous rules that helped con artists and thieves, while crippling honest small sellers. Unless you're a chinese vendor hawking thousands of auctions for the same tired junk, forget about ebay.

Craigslist is a great venue, as long as you exercise common sense. You meet the buyer, they look over the item, and if they want it they give you cash and you walk away. Unlike ebay, you don't have to:
• wait for payment
• worry about having your payment held for 90 days by PreyPal
• package the item
• ship the item
• track the item if it gets lost
•*@#$deal with the item being refused (so you pay for shipping TWICE!)
• deal with someone returning an old piece of junk and claiming that's what you sent them
• deal with someone claiming you didn't send what they bought, then getting a refund AND keeping the item (leaving you out both your item and your money!)

and I could go on. Sorry, but I will take Craigslist ANY DAY over feebay.

MN4x4 · Nov 1, 2010

Sorry for bringing this thread back from the dead - I'm relatively new here so I've been systematically reading back through all the posts. Guess I'm back to late last year now.

For those asking about stopping the garage door using something on the track, I have the LiftMaster 3800 like several others here. One of it's security features is that it has a deadbolt that automatically inserts a steel rod into the track to secure your door once it's closed. It happens automatically EVERY TIME - nothing to remember or forget.

And I agree whole heartedly with the posts that say "have a large dog - or two". We had our rental townhouse broken into once, many years ago. When I came home (I later determined that nothing was missing) my stereo equipment and several other items were piled by the front door, which was standing wide open. Just inside the door, laying alertly, was our german shepherd. She got a steak a that night.

Several weeks later we were outside with her when a neighbor kid came riding by on a bicycle. He saw our dog and - without touching the ground - lept from his bike to the top of a parked car and begged me to call the dog off. I asked him why he was scared of her, as she had made no move toward him? He wouldn't answer so I held her on him and called the cops. They talked to him and then went to his garage, where they recovered dozens of stolen items. Seems like he and some other brats were coming home from school and looting the townhouses, knowing that most owners would be at work until after 5. Apparently the word got around about our dog, as we never had another issue.

Learning from that experience, we've always had at least one large dog. When we moved to Kalifornia for a year, we made it it a point to take our dog for a walk each night as people were coming home. We'd stop and talk to anyone who expressed interest, and let them pet her if they wanted. We also warned them to never approach her if we weren't around, as she was trained to attack. In the 10 months we lived in that house every single one of our neighbors had their homes, garages, or cars broken into. We were the only ones who were never bothered.

Kinda funny how that worked out, huh?

ddawg16 · Nov 1, 2010

onewaydave said:
I have not noticed an increase in local crime, maybe in the city. I'm inclined to think its more from social values (criminals versus victems rights) and poor upbringing rather than the economy. Here are some of my approaches:

1. Situational awareness. Never presume that you are safe or protected.
2. Dogs trump electronic alarms. If you do have to go to alarms, get the most annoying, the loudest, the most flashingest-lights that you can afford. A silent alarm with a 5 minute response (and I think that isn't realistic) will only catch the drunks that are looking for a place to sleep.
3. Use motion detectors creatively. They don't have to be connected to lights.
4. Neighborhood watch. When I was 17, my motorcycle was stolen. I looked everywhere, talked to everyone. I found it in the shed behind the house of a neighborhood "friend". I stole it back, and yes I did.
5. DON'T shoot in the AIR. It wastes ammo. I am very accurate in placing .308 rounds and am only 200 yds from the shop.
6. In most states you can wear a side arm on your property. If you have people comming and going, subtly wear a side arm, under a coat, inside the pants. You don't necessarily have to brandish it but it does send a message.
7. Signs. I had trouble with trespassers and talked to the county sheriff. He asked if I had signs up saying that the judge would probably not do anythin to them if I didn't have signs. I took that to mean that I would have to take care of my own problems. The only sign I have is a "We Don't Call 911" sign, with a bunch of large calibur holes in it.
8. Booby traps are illegal. Dogs sleeping in the shop are not.
9. I have to ****** poachers (deer and turkey) off the property every few years. News gets around and I don't have to for a few years.
10. Motion activated cameras (game cameras are cheap) document the crime and the criminal. If the lights are motion activated also, the chump won't realize that his picture was taken also.
11. Remember that locks only keep the honest out. You can buy a pick gun from mail order for $49.00 that picks most residential locks in seconds.
12. Razor wire and hot wire fences are only good if they try to pee on it. Well it does establish a good demarcation of the perimeter.

Sorry for the rant but I get really ticked off at cowards, cheats and bullies.

Pretty good advice....

And I don't think there is a real significant increase in crime....but I think you can classify the burgs into two types....the organized guys and the chance thief....

A majority of the big burlaries are done by a small group of dirt bags....they have the connections to get rid of the stuff they take....

I can't stress enough the importance of marking your tools (company name or your drivers license #)....and put a sign up that says "ALL TOOLS ARE MARKED". Even if you get yout tools taken, you stand a better chance of getting them back.....if a cop pulls a guy over and asks him who's tools those are in the back seat and he says his....but they have your CDL on them? He goes to jail...you get your tools back.

copterdoctor · Nov 1, 2010

schultz said:
Advise to follow definitely!

I have already had a run in with a prowler on my property and he came real close to not making it off my land, Needless to say after 20 rnds from my AR15 he probably had to go home and clean his shorts. Living out in the sticks has it's perks and drawbacks, Your not immune to crime and LE will not be here in minutes when you need them. However most folks around me tend to watch out for each other and there have been several crimes adverted because of it. I always open carry on my property regardless of whose here and my thought is if you don't like it leave that simple.

if you didn't get him after shooting off 20 rounds from an AR15 maybe it's time to get your eyes checked... if you'd have said 1 or 2 I might understand, reluctantly, but 20? come on man......

one thing I always try to mention in discussions like this is.... If you have guns in your home, make sure you keep them locked up when you are gone... a tv, tools, whatever is small potatoes compared to having a gun stolen... don't think I need to mention why...

ecotec · Nov 1, 2010

sammerdog said:
dogs? cute signs? ccw permits?

That percy ding-ding **** won't get you very far in a ******** core town like Detroit or Flint.

They kinda raised the stakes up here while you guys were doing it "by the books".......

lately, it is pretty brazen. they kick down the front door and grab as much as they can and leave long before the cops show up. they then race back to detroit on I-75 or 94. a lot of good chase footage lately on TV.

but don't discount dogs and guns. they will all take a bite out of crime. i have a rottweiler and a lab/great dane mix that do not take kindly to change.

i am closing on a house at 3:30 today. i was excited. now, i am thinking about security. i am considering a multiple camera kit. maybe front porch, driveway, breezeway, back yard and each side of the house. i already bought new commercial door handles and deadbolts.

i am also considering attaching a shotgun rack to the back of my headboard or maybe welding a safe to my bed frame.

hetkind · Nov 1, 2010

I agree that security goes in levels, our FIRST level is a locked gate where our private road meets the paved road. Second is that nothing is visible from any public road or even our private road. The ONLY person who goes to the shop area without ****** is the meter reader. All craigs list sales are done out of a rented storage locker 10 miles away in town, and everything is tarped aside from the item being sold.

Last but not least...we have the room for a private ballistics range, we have enough land for a backstop up to .50 cal. We will neither confirm nor deny the presence of small arms up to .50 cal, but I will give you a hint. My wife's FAVORITE sleep shirt is from Barrett, their manufacturing facility is located on one of my regular travel routes. Their AR-15 with the 6.8spc round is far superior for long range kill than the NATO 5.56 round. Enough said?

Our travel plans are NEVER broadcast on any social, motorcycle, business or hobby websites and someone is ALWAYS around to keep the dogs fed. We buy the food in 50# sacks.

As for trouble, we don't see much.

Howard

bigbubba · Nov 1, 2010

bmwpower said:
But that has got to cause a ruckus, no?

Depends,friend of mines house burnt so when we stared to rebuild he bought a 12x20 shed with a rollup door to store tools and supplys in.One monday we pulled up to the place and the shed was gone!Guy next door came out and said he talked to the guys that picked it up with a rollback.They told him they bought the shed and he even gave us the name and# that was on the truck plus the driver even gave up his cell #.Truck was stolen that morning and of course the cell was bogus.They found the truck burnt at the bottom of an old qaury bt never found the shed/contents

Aberdale · Nov 1, 2010

Unfortunately, most of us are most vulnerable during the day, especially if both spouses work and the kids are at school. I had my pickup stolen out of my garage a few years back in broad daylight. It turned out to be a couple local high school kids that walk past our house twice everyday. They decided to cut afternoon class. My garage was locked, but they removed a pane of glass from the back window and broke in easily. I had been detailing my truck and had left the key in the ignition. (Why worry if the garage is locked, right?) They took my truck 4 wheelin'. When the cops found it, it was in a ravine, on it's side with the engine still running. Totalled. They found the kids, and they only got probation, even though they had 3 priors. I totally lost faith in our law enforcement and justice system. I currently have a friend who is a local sheriff detective, and based on the stories he's shared, my faith in "the system" hasn't improved.

My current rules for personal security?

1. Buy and maintain an alarm system. (I currently use ADT).
2. Don't advertise or brag about what I have.
3. Keep a few good friends close, (but don't have too many "casual" friends, or friends of friends).
4. Keep dogs. More is better (I currently have 4).
5. Don't post pictures of my stuff on the internet.
6. Don't post my correct address on the internet. (The town I post is a neighboring town.)
7. Don't let anyone know when I will be away from home.
8. Use automatic light timers that turn on the house lights even when I'm gone.
9. Keep firearms loaded and where they can be accessed when needed.
10. Have someone house-sit while we take a vacation. (We currently have my retired sister and BIL spend a week or two here while we're away. They think being at our place is a vacation, too.)

I've bought and sold a bit of stuff on CL and have been lucky so far. I've never considered that buyers could be casing the place, but can certainly see how it could happen. I think I'll modify my selling technique to meet at a neutral, well populated, and well lit site for future transactions when I can.

Dale

hetkind · Nov 1, 2010

hey, that's a nice K100RS on your icon, I might have a bike or two that age lying around...Those scumbag kids...if under 18, their parents are responsible for damages. Why did the kids walk? were they still "good kids" or did their parents bail them out one more time.

I find that a tremendous amount of crime is drug related or worse yet, "war on drugs" related. Fix the drug problem, the crime problem will go away.

Howard

Concrete B · Nov 1, 2010

Now, I didn't read every post here, but I am stunned at the lack of insurance, and the willingness to kill over tools (which in most states will put YOU in jail...over tools. REALLY!). There is lots of good advice in this thread. If you find someone in your shop, protect yourself and family before your tools.

My plan: take pictures of everything in the garage. Insure everything in those pics. If I find a thief in my garage, I'll protect my wife & kid, call the cops, and try to take pics of the person(s) and vehicle(s) involved. Any wielding of a gun is strictly for personal protection. The furthest I'd go is to try to disable their getaway car, or if I were home alone to try to physically secure the thief.

Warning shots will scare them away and they won't get caught. You want them caught and in jail. Also, they are likely armed. Assume that your thief is a pro, and ready for confrontation. I think most of you are vastly underestimating them. Locking doors only stops honest thieves and maybe crackheads. A pro will cut a hole in your siding with a torch and walk in to get what he wants. Insure your tools....

drmoonshine · Nov 1, 2010

Get a security system to put your mind at ease. A dog and taking an inventory of all you tools would be a good start also.

Aberdale · Nov 1, 2010

hetkind said:
hey, that's a nice K100RS on your icon, I might have a bike or two that age lying around...Those scumbag kids...if under 18, their parents are responsible for damages. Why did the kids walk? were they still "good kids" or did their parents bail them out one more time.

I find that a tremendous amount of crime is drug related or worse yet, "war on drugs" related. Fix the drug problem, the crime problem will go away.

Howard

Thanks for the comments on the bike. I bought it new in 1990, and still ride it fairly regularly.

As to the kids, it all comes down to the judge. I went to court for the arraignment. Since it was only property damage (which my insurance covered), and no physical injury to the victim (me), the judge let them off easy. The judge also knew the kids parents, so I believe that also was taken into account in his ruling. You may be right about the drug influence. There had been a group of kids using the area behind my garage and my neighbors garage for afternoon parties. There was plenty of evidence. Roaches, beer cans, rubbers. Since we worked during the day we could never catch them in the act.

Unfortunately for me, my insurance went up $300/yr., and I was scolded by my agent for leaving the keys in the truck even though the garage was locked.

Dale

Aberdale · Nov 1, 2010

Concrete B said:
Now, I didn't read every post here, but I am stunned at the lack of insurance, and the willingness to kill over tools (which in most states will put YOU in jail...over tools. REALLY!).

You're right. Even if my tools are worth $75,000, am I really ahead if I kill a scum bag thief over them? If I am convicted of murder, how long will I need to spend in jail? Probably longer than it would take to earn the money to replace the tools. And of course I would lose my job, lose my place in society (whatever that means), could lose my family, and would have a criminal record. Sounds pretty dumb, right?

Unfortunately, insurance is only a short term solution. It will likely cover the loss the first time if it was well documented. It will raise your rates, and put you on a "high risk" list. If it happens again, the insurance company will likely drop you and you will not be able to get insurance again for a long time. Then you are on your own. What would you do then?

It's frustrating. And some of us have lost sleep thinking about it. Unfortunately it could happen to any of us, if we own anything of value. The best we can do is protect our stuff the best we can, and hope we don't become victims.

Packard V8 · Nov 1, 2010

Random observations:

but I am stunned at . . . the willingness to kill over tools

Many of us here have done some military service and you have asked us in your name to kill over democracy and freedom, which are relative and are abstractions; as well as for cheap petroleum, which is just a convenience. Tools are real. Personal and family security are real. So yes, we're ready, willing and able.

its not uncommon for them to introduce some kind of sleeping gas into the house A/C system at night and then break in.

international urban legend I first heard in the 1980s while traveling on the Soviet train system. Never, ever seen it documented.

As to everything posted before, your results may vary.

jack vines

28HopUp · Nov 1, 2010

hetkind said:
Our travel plans are NEVER broadcast on any social, motorcycle, business or hobby websites and someone is ALWAYS around to keep the dogs fed. We buy the food in 50# sacks.

I am amazed at the number of educated adults I see on Facebook who post that they are traveling and away from their house. These are the types who use FB like Twitter to give everyone timely updates about what they're doing and where they are. Guess what? You can post pictures when you get back. Otherwise you're just begging to have your house broken into.

warmpancakes · Nov 1, 2010

castle doctrine, once they are in "your" home car or violating your space they are dead, always keep a round chambered,

taylorguitar · Nov 1, 2010

Losing your stuff to robbery is so much more painful when they get away with it.

My father-in-law is the great white deer slayer of Arkansas and I have a two year old...ideas based upon that.

Gonna install deer hunter motion sensor cameras that email pics to me with a sign that says..."you are caught. picture emailed to me already". Position cameras so that it gets license plates also.

My little boys night viewing baby monitor gave me the idea to install cameras all around. People don't like to see a camera pointed at them. Set up for operation based upon motion sensing and record when running.

On the gun idea....i bet none of you know anyone that has used a gun to defend themselves, but all of you know someone that either almost accidentally or actually did shoot someone in their family. Guns for protection is about as stupid as using your truck to run over a trespasser. Just isn't gonna happen. Gives you a hard on and gives you a false sense of security. My nephew shot a guy in self defense against a baseball bat. That act of self defense totally ruined his life. Totally! He could have run...

Safe gun handlers make mistakes all the time. And then you have kids getting ahold of guns. I agree we should all have the right to bear arms...but don't fool yourselves...well, most of you already have...you are not going to need it.

Concrete B · Nov 1, 2010

warmpancakes said:
castle doctrine, once they are in "your" home car or violating your space they are dead, always keep a round chambered,

In Ohio your car is only under the castle doctrine if someone in it is in peril. You cannot shoot someone for stealing your car in a parking lot while you are leaving the store, only if they car-jack you. I don't know about MI, but don't take hearsay, learn the laws.

I may have high capacity weaponry, and am highly capable of defending myself, but going on the offensive will get you locked up 95% of the time. Im not trying to argue law and gun rights...just reality check. Firing a shot will nearly always land you in court, and it's up to 12 people to decide if you were within your rights or not. I'd go to jail for my family, but not my tools. Your effort is best spent deterring or identifying the criminal.

Packard V8 · Nov 1, 2010

Lessee, some random thoughts:

There's the "broken window" theory that problems, if not dealt with as soon as they occur, become much worse than they would otherwise be.

The usual example given is the first broken window in a neighborhood. If the window is not fixed as soon as possible, the bad element (whatever that is for that neighborhood) surmise no one cares so they move in and bring their friends. Conversely, if it is fixed immediately, the bad element knows that people are aware and active in the neighborhood. .

Then, let's paraphrase a well-known statement about resistance - "First they came for..." is a famous statement attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) about the results of inactivity.:

First, they took, my car and I said, "Good thing I've got insurance."

Then they came into the garage and took my tools and I said, "They're not worth defending."

When finally they broke down the door and came for us, by then there were too many and they took my wife and daughters.

Your opinions and results may vary.

mrpowderkeg · Nov 1, 2010

Torque1st said:
Forget the shotgun if you are out in the country. If you see trucks out near your barn in the wee hours put a few 30-06 rounds thru the engine blocks, then call the sheriff.

Damn right. Set yourself in a nice dark spot where you can see them and they cannot set you. Disable the truck call cops and have all evidence you need. I wonder if you could be held liable for damages to the truck... although they were trespassing and committing a crime, you were not shooting at the perps, but you were preventing a theft by disabling the truck. So do you have to be liable for damages caused to a vehicle being used in a crime??? Hmm... Probably could get away with it if you have a decent attorney.

hetkind · Nov 1, 2010

I don't think I would shoot to destroy a vehicle for the act of simple trespass. I would just put down the strips of nail studded 1x6 in front of the gate, let them load something HEAVY, and then start turning lights on and letting the dogs bay. I doubt they will make it too far with four flat tires. The odds are that the vehicle is trackable, often by site by the sheriff and that the owner will be arrested shortly.

My experience is that most of the thefts way out in the country are done by locals needing drug/beer money. As for stealing a truck to commit robbery, not all that common. Now I did have a problem with a neighbor's, worker's son borrowing his dad's work truck parked at my neighbors while the worker was out of town on a group job, to go "scrapping" to buy drugs. We caught him at it one day in a BIG way. Never happened again.

Howard

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Banned