Load bearing wall in the middle of 2 car garage! Should I remove it?

Tom2 said:

Wow..That is interesting.

I had to re-read that about 4 times..but I think I understand what you're saying.

If I understand it right..


Put a 2X12 on both ends of the current load bearing wall. Nail them into the existing studs and the joists.

Then put support columns under the entire thing. (I'll probably still use Lally columns since they can be cinched up tight..Would just need wood, or metal spacer on top to cover the whole beam). Also would need to cut part of the existing wall's sill to allow for column placement. Between studs..Nothing dramatic to affect anything..

Cut off all of the studs, leaving the top parts in between the 2 x 12s.


Then box in the bottom if desired..



Anyone have any opinions on that? Should be plenty strong. Can't imagine it twisting either..

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You could use a combination of lengths of 2x12's....nail a combination that spans the entire length of the garage to studs/joists like he said...then nail/glue plywood to the 2x12's & put another 2x12 on the other side of the plywood but where no joint matches another - 2x12's or plywood....make 1 of those on either side of the center wall.....box them underneath with another 2x12 & put 6x6 posts on either end at the end walls....bet you'd not need anything out in the middle to support that setup especially if the 2x12's & plywood were glued & bolted together.

All thread that together , make one hell of beam. It would end up 11'' thick. Sure would eliminate post in middle. Really need someone to stop and take look at problem. Better be safe then sorry.

This is getting way to complicated... First of all, a steel beam will exhibit a lot of spring, not necessarily deflection, but bounce unless you pad it with wood bolted into the pockets to damp the springiness. Again I suggest an engineered wood beam, that way you can be sure of the design and it's as close as your local lumber yard.

Your temp walls need not be full walls, just run a 2x4 top plate under the plaster or drywall directly under the strapping that is usually placed 90 degrees to the joists and bear the weight through the drywall on both sides of the beam, leaving enough room to work comfortably in there. You will only need a stud every 3 or 4 feet...plenty of room to get in there and work. Since you're going to open up the wall between the doors to fix it, slide your beam in that way. Prepare a beam pocket in the back wall, nail 2x4 rungs across the supports for the beam pocket and get 2 guys and lift the back end up and hop it from rung to rung till you get it up to the pocket. Then at the front of the garage, pick up the beam a foot or so at a time and nail a rung under it as you go. When you get close to the top, figure the height of your jacks and then use them as a stilt to push the beam into final position. Going the engineered lumber route will show that you could quite possibly manage the whole span with no columns and therefore not have to worry about footings.

cookster said:

Tom got off phone with engineer. Looks like your stuck with what you have. Try to explain best. That wall now is supporting the whole length. So when you take it out and support header with post. It's being supported [say 4 post] now it's load is one them 4 post. With out footer under them post , trouble will start.

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Not sure I follow.. I'll put a plate of steal under each column to spread the load on the concrete. There may even be a footer under the wall. But, even without one, I'm not too worried about the concrete - especially with a 1/2in plate of steel atleast 12x12 under each column.

cookster said:

Tom got off phone with engineer. Looks like your stuck with what you have. Try to explain best. That wall now is supporting the whole length. So when you take it out and support header with post. It's being supported [say 4 post] now it's load is one them 4 post. With out footer under them post , trouble will start.

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hes not stuck with what he has unless hes really limited in his budget. if he puts in columns hes going to have to pour a footing at each location which really isnt that big of a deal. at the ends of the wall the foundation should be more than enough to carry the load of the beam

blkhonda1991 said:

hes not stuck with what he has unless hes really limited in his budget. if he puts in columns hes going to have to pour a footing at each location which really isnt that big of a deal. at the ends of the wall the foundation should be more than enough to carry the load of the beam

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Yea, and I'm not against doing that either.. It's more work than the plates of steel...but I'll do it if needed.

If that's the case, I could easily size the beam to carry the whole load and have 1-0 columns in the middle.

But, I'd still rather do the steel plates (unless everyone thinks that's really stupid). With 4 supports total.. Theres not going to be much weight under each column..

Even if there were 5 total columns (3 in middle of garage) - that still wouldn't be that bad - much better than it is now.

With that being the case.. I'd bet $$ the current concrete would be fine.. But I would still set each column on a steel plate.

tcianci said:

This is getting way to complicated... First of all, a steel beam will exhibit a lot of spring, not necessarily deflection, but bounce unless you pad it with wood bolted into the pockets to damp the springiness. Again I suggest an engineered wood beam, that way you can be sure of the design and it's as close as your local lumber yard.

Your temp walls need not be full walls, just run a 2x4 top plate under the plaster or drywall directly under the strapping that is usually placed 90 degrees to the joists and bear the weight through the drywall on both sides of the beam, leaving enough room to work comfortably in there. You will only need a stud every 3 or 4 feet...plenty of room to get in there and work. Since you're going to open up the wall between the doors to fix it, slide your beam in that way. Prepare a beam pocket in the back wall, nail 2x4 rungs across the supports for the beam pocket and get 2 guys and lift the back end up and hop it from rung to rung till you get it up to the pocket. Then at the front of the garage, pick up the beam a foot or so at a time and nail a rung under it as you go. When you get close to the top, figure the height of your jacks and then use them as a stilt to push the beam into final position. Going the engineered lumber route will show that you could quite possibly manage the whole span with no columns and therefore not have to worry about footings.

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I used steel to support my entire house. There is no "spring", no deflection, nothing, just a solid tight floor.

To span the entire 24' without columns would require a 5 1/4 x 20 microlam or a 7 x 18 paralam. You'll be hitting your head on it all the time. See the span tables on page 15 of the following document:

http://www.ilevel.com/literature/TJ-9000.pdf

I still think steel is the best solution and I think a W6 x 12 would work, maybe a W8. One column in the midspan, cut the slab and pour a nice footing for it. Whether you have inspectors there or not, you have to remember that your gonna be holding up the second floor of your house with this beam.
The second best solution is engineered lumber, if you don't care about the reduced headroom. This is a situation where, in my opinion, it makes no sense to use regular dimensional lumber for this beam.

I'm not a structural engineer, just offering my opinions. As others have said, ultimately, I'd have an engineer size the beam to make sure it was done right.

blkhonda1991 said:

if he puts in columns hes going to have to pour a footing at each location which really isnt that big of a deal.

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As I said earlier.
The wall is already load bearing and I would be extremely surprised if there is not a large footing running full length under it. The load it is carrying is larger than the load on the outside walls and you can bet there is a good foundation footing full length there. I have built many places on a similiar design over the last 40 years.

I wish there was a way to know for sure.. Forgot to call the town offices today - but I doubt they would have anything anyways.


Well...I guess I could just drill a hole through the concrete and see how deep it goes. I can drill it right in the current door opening (farthest from the garage doors).
Would just need a bigger bit that I currently have.

To quote a well know fact: "opinions vary"...

If you weigh the pros and cons of this fix, the cons are winning. I will admit that I wouldn't buy a house that had a similar issue, but I also didn't think of paying someone to offer a fix, either. (I was much younger and dumber)

Someone with credentials (aka engineer) would be my suggestion.

If something goes bad, its his a$$. Otherwise, it could/would be yours

In one of his earlier replies the OP stated that there is a crack in the floor running the length of the wall. Or at least that's how I understood it, I asked for a clarification on that. If there is a crack in the floor running the length of the wall, that may well be an indication that there IS a footing running the length of the wall under there. As far as the headroom is concerned, we often make a "pocket" for the beam by cutting all the joists short, pushing the beam up to the underside of the sub floor and then hanging the joists off of the beam...There's more than one way to skin a cat.

I removed 34' of the rear wall of my garage & added 20' to its depth - half the garage at a time.

tcianci said:

In one of his earlier replies the OP stated that there is a crack in the floor running the length of the wall. Or at least that's how I understood it, I asked for a clarification on that. If there is a crack in the floor running the length of the wall, that may well be an indication that there IS a footing running the length of the wall under there. As far as the headroom is concerned, we often make a "pocket" for the beam by cutting all the joists short, pushing the beam up to the underside of the sub floor and then hanging the joists off of the beam...There's more than one way to skin a cat.

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Yes, that is how the crack is located.

With 2X12s, headroom isn't that big of a deal. The ceiling is only 7ft something.. Same as the upper level. Low ceilings


I was looking through one of my framing books.. They have a basic table for lumber beam spans. If you have 1 level above (which is the case, since the trusses in the attic carry the load to the outside - but even for 1.5 stories, the span is only a couple feet less)


For 3 2 X 12's you can span 10-11ft between supports. So, using this fairly rough idea - I would only need 3 supports for the entire 24ft.

For the 5 support posts I'm willing to put in - I could basically get away with 2X8's lol


But, since I like to over engineer everything - Especially when it's structurally related to my house! - I think I should go 3 2X12s and 5 columns total. I was in the room earlier - and I can easily live with 3 post in the middle of the room. Yea, it's annoying, and I'll bump into them.. but I can live with it.


I think any reasonable person could agree that 3 2 X12s with 5 support columns over 24ft is more than adequate.
Really, no reason to consider a steel or glu-lam beam with this many supports..
Being that it's regular lumber makes it easier for me to buy, put together myself.


Basically I think the plan I started with is the way to go - aside from I learned to put temp supports on both side obviously. And I probably won't do 2X4 walls. Just buy a bunch more lally columns. I'll just resell all the extras when I'm done. Or maybe rent them instead of buy. This way I can preload it a little.


The other thing I'm not so sure about is how necessary it is to have a "pocket" on each end of the beam. Is that an absolute "must" to keep it from twisting? I know that's how most center beams are placed in basement when they go into foundation walls - but this isn't going into any concrete wall.

If you put in 5 supports over 24 feet, that is 6 openings of less than 4 feet each.
Seems like a total waste of effort if that is all you are achieving..

Justanoldguy said:

If you put in 5 supports over 24 feet, that is 6 openings of less than 4 feet each.
Seems like a total waste of effort if that is all you are achieving..

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Actually, thats only 4 openings with more like 6' between them. Remember, I'm counting the 2 end supports.


To me it still makes the situation 100% better. It'll still be like 1 large room.



And again.. I may not even tackle this project. I might just decide to live with it.. but putting this research into definitely makes me feel pretty confident.


Then once this is done, I can begin doing the real work. Flooring, paint, lighting, benches, cabinets, etc..
Been dreaming of doing this garage since we moved in.. This stupid center wall is part of what's been keeping me from doing anything.

do your self a favor have some one look at it. you got second floor above. you can beat this form to death. not their call it's yours. no disrespect to anyone. when built my ranch home 1995 i poured footers where my screw jacks set.and i have 40'' beam holding up first floor.

Probably good advice to hace someone look at it....12 years ago when I wanted to enlarge my garage, I hasd an engineer look at it....he told me there was no way to take out 34' of the back wall because there was a 2nd floor & the rafters rested on that wall....well, 12 years later, I have 1 post in the middle & a couple of architectural beams holding up the roof & 2'nd floor as well as part of the 20' expansion all along the 34'....get different opinions & then decide yourself based on your knowledge & abilities....from time-to-time, the enginer still asks me if the roof has sagged or if the floor is sagging or the building widening at the top....Nope!