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Box End Wrench Contact Points 2 (Pic heavy)

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DavidB

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slowcamaro said:
I dont have any to lend, but you may want to try to get some toptul results.
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I PMed Mike Wren on here but haven't gotten a response back from him. Same with a Gear Wrench rep on here and Matco distributor. I don't mind testing more wrenches but the prices on single wrenches add up. Hence me asking for folks to send them to me if they want to see a specific brand tested.

David
 
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Skin

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Jack90210 said:
I agree with most of that. However, if the contact points are the same with a 6-point and a 12-point, then they will degrade equally. Whether the extra "wall" of a 6-point is a benefit with a worn tool is conjecture.
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I dont think so, just imagine it slipping on a heavily worn bolt. If a 12 point slips it does so until it hits the next contact point which puts uneven stress on the rest of the bolt and causes a very good chance of rounding it off, a 6 point cant do that because its got the entire wall of the socket to push against.
 
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Monte

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@quattrojohn:
Here is the proof:

img68395430720242.jpg
 
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Givl Reggin

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I hate to be the one to rain on your parade... but, these "test" are meaningless because you have two tolerances to take into account (1) the wrench and (2) the nut - you might have selected a nut at it's minimum tolerance and a wrench at its maximum and that's going to change the contact area and if the situation was reversed (wrench minimum / nut maximum) the contact point would again look different.

While the results are interesting, they don't prove or disprove anything.
 
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slowcamaro

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DavidB said:
I PMed Mike Wren on here but haven't gotten a response back from him. Same with a Gear Wrench rep on here and Matco distributor. I don't mind testing more wrenches but the prices on single wrenches add up. Hence me asking for folks to send them to me if they want to see a specific brand tested.

David
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I understand, maybe try getting ahold of 'ultgar' for a toptul to test if you can't get ahold of mike. He is another member/vendor/supporter who seems to get forgotten from time to time. Just an alternative source. I'm just curious as to the results as they may sway my next big purchase.
 
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superautobacs

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Givl Reggin said:
I hate to be the one to rain on your parade... but, these "test" are meaningless because you have two tolerances to take into account (1) the wrench and (2) the nut - you might have selected a nut at it's minimum tolerance and a wrench at its maximum and that's going to change the contact area and if the situation was reversed (wrench minimum / nut maximum) the contact point would again look different.

While the results are interesting, they don't prove or disprove anything.
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:+1: this is the reality. Tolerance levels vary between manufacturers, even within a same batch.

It's nonetheless interesting to see/read. :D
 
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xroad

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Givl Reggin said:
I hate to be the one to rain on your parade... but, these "test" are meaningless because you have two tolerances to take into account (1) the wrench and (2) the nut - you might have selected a nut at it's minimum tolerance and a wrench at its maximum and that's going to change the contact area and if the situation was reversed (wrench minimum / nut maximum) the contact point would again look different.

While the results are interesting, they don't prove or disprove anything.
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True.

He can try to minimize the number of variables. Even with the same nut, he'll have to keep it consistent and not rotate it and use the same contact face every time. No guarantee one face pair is the same as the other two face pairs on the same nut.

Better to use one nut, the same nut, the same face on the nut for the test with all the wrenches.

Or, have a quantity of X nuts, and for each wrench, test it on each of the x nuts.

You will also have the same problem with different faces of the wrench. To be consistent, the wrench have to be used with the same face each time.

In the end, it is just a very interesting observation.
 
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DavidB

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Givl Reggin said:
I hate to be the one to rain on your parade... but, these "test" are meaningless because you have two tolerances to take into account (1) the wrench and (2) the nut - you might have selected a nut at it's minimum tolerance and a wrench at its maximum and that's going to change the contact area and if the situation was reversed (wrench minimum / nut maximum) the contact point would again look different.

While the results are interesting, they don't prove or disprove anything.
Click to expand...

There lies the issue. I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm simply trying to show something. I make no claim that every wrench made by company A will always look like the results I have shown here. I do not have a large enough sample size of wrenches or nuts to determine any kind of statistically relevant results. I have not come out and stated that wrench A is better than wrench B. The testing is insufficient and I am not qualified to do so. I have offered my opinion when asked a direct question but for the most part I have tried to leave it up to the individual to determine what they want to from the results. I'm not trying to convince anyone to go buy Brand A wrenches or throw away Brand B wrenches. I don't work for a tool company in any fashion. I was simply trying to show contact patterns of the box end of some wrenches. In the end they all turn a nut.

David
 
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DavidB

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slowcamaro said:
I understand, maybe try getting ahold of 'ultgar' for a toptul to test if you can't get ahold of mike. He is another member/vendor/supporter who seems to get forgotten from time to time. Just an alternative source. I'm just curious as to the results as they may sway my next big purchase.
Click to expand...

I checked Mike's website today and a 13mm wrench is $4 but the page didn't seem to calculate shipping. I have a feeling shipping would cost more than the wrench!
 
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quattrojon

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superautobacs said:
Just another side note...
Last time I checked the Beta catalogue, they offered Ko-ken ratchets next to their own ratchets. :)
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I couldn't find any Koken branded products in my Beta UK catalogue, they probably do different versions for different markets.
 
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Monte

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@quattrojon:

not Ko-Ken branded but from Ko-ken with Beta name :)

for example:

Koken 4753P
4753p.jpg


Beta 920M/55
r13351_hr.jpg
 
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rodm1

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Have you checked the angle of play each wrenches has? After seeing this test I might have to reevaluate my opinion on the beloved 6-point wrench. May be get some wright wrenches to.
 
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LincolnCont.

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now for the next "who's better" wrench test...tighten those nuts until something fails and post the results & torque @ which it happened. Then we would really know which tool performs above and beyond.

edit* It looks like the newer C-man's are gripping better than all of them to prevent corner rounding.
 
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mrholeshot

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Great write up David. It does prove something and that is where the contact points hit. While it may not allow for the differance in tolerance between the nuts and the wrenches it close enough. You used the same brand of nut that came out of the same factory and quite possibly in the same hour. Using a soft nut gives a better perspective of what will happen. If it won't round the corner of a cheap nut and break the bolt the better nuts will most likely survive.

I personally hope this gives some of the 12 point socket haters so insight. Thanks for taking the time to do this as I know how labor intensive it can be. I'm doing a 3/8 ratchet shootout and it takes some time and money. I'm just waiting on a Gearwrench ratchet to arrive to finish up. I found your test very imformative. Thanks for taking the time to do this.
 
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mixxmstrmike

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I just read this entire thread and found it to be one of the reasons why I frequent this site!

Thank you for doing this. I certainly appreciate your time and thoroughness. This test was as controlled as you could have made it without breaking the bank and that needs to be noted over and over again.

This was an excellent review given real world nuts and tools! :thumbup:

-Mike
 
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DavidB

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Thanks for the comments guys. I'm glad to see folks are still reading it months after I've posted it. Keep an eye out for the socket version of this coming up in the near future.
 
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polo2k

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good review!
somewhere up there /\ someone mentioned rust as being another variable, maybe its worth submerging a "batch" of nuts for a set amount of time (all with the thread vertically) and then see how they perform, depending on the corrosion it might even help with marking the contact points
 
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