ok.. tell me if I am nuts?

[Angelfire]

I wouldn't pay until the job is done. That being said, it's too late to reap the full benefits of cutting control joints now. Those should be cut within a few hours of final finish. At this point, I'm going to assume your concrete stopped hydrating some time ago and they aren't going to help all that much....they can't hurt but he should have cut them in on the same day as the pour.

Another advantage to paying for materials etc yourself is to avoid having liens placed against you by the material suppliers when the contractors don't pay them!

[Dan in Pasadena]

Full pay when job is fully done, period, no exceptions. And tell him you'll respect him in the morning!

[Ryf]

he came back today, earlier than usual, and did his job quickly and cleaned up per our agreement. I am not sure what you mean by hydrating, I have watered the concrete 3 times since he poured it, it was poured at noon around 85 degrees, it also got pretty cool here last night (low 60's) so I am pretty sure its late but not too late. the pad is only 20x22, so its questionable if I even needed one, he recommended it, so I agreed so i cant see the harm of it as of right now lol.

he showed up cut it and got paid, its a win win, thanks for the venting session, no I wouldn't hire him again.

[Angelfire]

I may have misunderstood your original post. I was under the impression he poured this slab some time ago (ie. a few days ago) but still hadn't cut the control joints. Typically, control joints should be cut within 12 hours of starting the pour and ideally within an hour or two of final finishing.

Hydrating is the process which occurs when the concrete is mixed and is hardening. It's essentially the wetting of all the cement in the mix which chemically creates cement gel which forms the hydrated cement paste. If proper hydration doesn't occur (usually over the course of several days), then there is water left in the concrete that will eventually leave and leave voids. To avoid this, curing is needed with a water cure being pretty effective and simple to do. If you poured yesterday and have kept the concrete looking dark green the whole time, then the cure is going well. Keep that slab from drying out for 7 days and you'll increase your compressive strength significantly. A 3000psi mix can easily make 4-5000psi with a proper cure. It also sounds like your temps are good as it's a pain to keep a slab wet or even flooded with water when it just evaporates off in 15 mins! If your slab has dried out at any time, it's done...you can't restart the hydration process by putting water on it again.

Here's a link to some of the basics of concrete.

http://www.cement.org/basics/concretebasics_faqs.asp

Glad to see he showed up and did what he was supposed to do. Now get ready for the framing!

[akdiesel]

This has to be the contractor I had dealings with last year.
I paid a portion just like you did, the only difference was at the end he wanted more than the quote. Agreements on the phone started quickly. He, himself, never stepped one foot on the property. He had his employee do the estimate for removal and installation. Not our fault the guessed it was a 4" pad and not an 8" pad (we had no idea either).
They did not start until after two weeks due jail time for for his employee (waiting for him to be released). A different sub came and did excavation while the main employee was in jail.
I had to play GC. Had to order a porta potty, pay for the concrete and pump truck all out of my pocket, as well as catering to them (I like to help those busting their butt on location. This seams to get better work results).
Last phone call to the guy was him going to contact a lawyer as well as some threatening words from him. Told him that would be great I will get my lawyer as well. Stood the ground and an apology was given back to me and no extra costs.
Sorry for the long story but simply stand your ground. You have a contract that will stand in court for either side of the party.
Good luck

[Ryf]

Originally Posted by Angelfire

I may have misunderstood your original post. I was under the impression he poured this slab some time ago (ie. a few days ago) but still hadn't cut the control joints. Typically, control joints should be cut within 12 hours of starting the pour and ideally within an hour or two of final finishing.

Hydrating is the process which occurs when the concrete is mixed and is hardening. It's essentially the wetting of all the cement in the mix which chemically creates cement gel which forms the hydrated cement paste. If proper hydration doesn't occur (usually over the course of several days), then there is water left in the concrete that will eventually leave and leave voids. To avoid this, curing is needed with a water cure being pretty effective and simple to do. If you poured yesterday and have kept the concrete looking dark green the whole time, then the cure is going well. Keep that slab from drying out for 7 days and you'll increase your compressive strength significantly. A 3000psi mix can easily make 4-5000psi with a proper cure. It also sounds like your temps are good as it's a pain to keep a slab wet or even flooded with water when it just evaporates off in 15 mins! If your slab has dried out at any time, it's done...you can't restart the hydration process by putting water on it again.

Here's a link to some of the basics of concrete.

http://www.cement.org/basics/concretebasics_faqs.asp

Glad to see he showed up and did what he was supposed to do. Now get ready for the framing!

well I am glad you taught me that and sad, I wont be able to keep it like this after tommorow afternoon, have to do that work thing lol. so adding water will have to stop. since I dont really want to come home to a split hose or worse. doing things when I am home and can wander out a few times a day is cool, but I like to button it up when I am gone so if I dont make it back right away no harm. two days is better than none I hope.

Originally Posted by akdiesel

This has to be the contractor I had dealings with last year.
I paid a portion just like you did, the only difference was at the end he wanted more than the quote. Agreements on the phone started quickly. He, himself, never stepped one foot on the property. He had his employee do the estimate for removal and installation. Not our fault the guessed it was a 4" pad and not an 8" pad (we had no idea either).
They did not start until after two weeks due jail time for for his employee (waiting for him to be released). A different sub came and did excavation while the main employee was in jail.
I had to play GC. Had to order a porta potty, pay for the concrete and pump truck all out of my pocket, as well as catering to them (I like to help those busting their butt on location. This seams to get better work results).
Last phone call to the guy was him going to contact a lawyer as well as some threatening words from him. Told him that would be great I will get my lawyer as well. Stood the ground and an apology was given back to me and no extra costs.
Sorry for the long story but simply stand your ground. You have a contract that will stand in court for either side of the party.
Good luck

lol, they must be cousins, no porta potty here though lol. he did ask for more, I told him he was out of his mind and told him I had lost money from my pocket waiting on him and if we are just going to adjust on the fly he deserved alot less. this happened when he asked for payment in full before job end, the conversation turned into a excited discussion loud enough to wake my son on the other side of the house (its not a big house) and get my neighbor concerned enough to walk over. I might not want to tackle a concrete floor but I am not the kind of person who takes bullying, yelling and hassling, in fact it pretty much makes me go into f_u mode, where I will no longer be reasonable and go into making shit worse just to let you feel how I feel lol. when he started yelling I raised my voice to his level and told him I would mail him a bleeping check in o, how about 4 days from whenever he finishes, since he doesn't respect my time, why the bleep should I give his any consideration.. it really turned south at that point, but the neighbor showing up kind of put the brakes on his shouting...somewhere in there he accepted I wasn't going to be bullied and accepted my terms..

as i said though, I like his work, he did a good job and delivered a good product in the end, i really didn't want to dump on him this bad, because I AM getting what I wanted, just about a business week late with a bit of head butting. in any transactions things get complicated, but I dont think either of us were innocent in the argument, he started being a dick because he didn't get his way and I was already fed up with him and returned fire, could I have handled it better? maybe, but I didn't really feel like it at that point lol. I probably should have fired him and taken the financial loss on the day he came back, but its hard to part with money and I had hope we'd get it done if I just let him get to it. part of me really feels bad for posting this part, as I really just wanted to know if I was wrong on how to deal with contractors, but it also feels good to vent about what a pain in the ass this experience was lol.

[Bill Crowell]

"Last but not least: Have a LIEN WAVER in hand before you pay him, make him sign it, saying that he has been paid in full and material has been paid in full. This way nobody can come back later and lien your property over this job."

Since the lien runs in favor of the materialman, not the contractor, the contractor has no legal capacity to waive a materialman's lien.

[Angelfire]

Originally Posted by Ryf

well I am glad you taught me that and sad, I wont be able to keep it like this after tommorow afternoon, have to do that work thing lol. so adding water will have to stop. since I dont really want to come home to a split hose or worse. doing things when I am home and can wander out a few times a day is cool, but I like to button it up when I am gone so if I dont make it back right away no harm. two days is better than none I hope.

One thing you could do, and is quite frequently done, is give it a good soaking then drape visqueen over it. The one negative to doing this is it will leave markings on the concrete where the plastic was sitting. Another option would be to drape it in burlap or similar and soak that down. Oh, and there is waterproof paper available that acts similar to the plastic but doesn't leave markings. If you're after a full cure, these are a few methods to keep the water cure going.
Cheers,
cc

[6768rogues]

Don't pay until it is done. If he was not on the job as promised and did not call, he is irresponsible and disrespectful of his customers. Even if the work was stellar, I would not like his behavior. If it drags on, send a certified letter with a drop dead date for completion or you will have another contractor finish it and back charge him.