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Cashflow! (for small businesses)

milkovich

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Oct 15, 2007
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Akron Ohio
Chris Adams sparked my curiosity with a post in another thread about "cashflow."

Eventually, I'd like to open my own business (way down the road) but I guess I don't understand the concept behind "cashflow" (especially in a retail environment like a motorcycle parts shop etc.)

It might even come in handy for picking investments (which I can turn into more garage space).

It will definitely come in handy the next time I'm trying to obfuscate and dazzle with my grasp of business jargonology.:thumbup:
 
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bluesman2a

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I'm looking for the question or discussion topic we're looking to start here. Your powers of obfuscation seem to be working overtime.
 

Franz©

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You're in Akron.
Drive over to Sam Winers and park.
Watch the parts leave.
Watch the cash come in.
That's cash flow.
 
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M

milkovich

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Oct 15, 2007
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I guess my question is:

How do businesses with a sound concept fold in two or three years aparently by mismanaging their cashflow?

Is it simply a question of not having enough cash on hand for restocking inventory or paying the electric bill? sitting on stagnant inventory? Maybe the term just has me confused.
 

v8garage

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Jun 27, 2007
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901
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Texas
I looked at this thread hoping to see a good discussion about cashflow but ended up getting an education about obfuscation and jargonology.:lol_hitti What I know about cashflow is that it flows out of my pockets faster than it flows in. I must be good for the economy!
Does anyone have intelligent answer to the original question?
 
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CraigFL

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Nov 1, 2005
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704
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Panama City, FL
Cashflow--- You buy your business, set it up, purchase your inventory, hire your workers, now you got all this debt, some of which they asked you to pay immediately and some which you have 30 day terms. You open your doors for business but it takes a while for you to sell something but in the meantime the bills keep coming in-- which have to be paid with cash(check). Then customers come in and they don't want to pay immediately-- they want 30 day terms too which means you won't see their money for 30 days. Even if you deposit their check, it may not clear for several days from that or worse yet, not at all. You will need to cover the money required to keep your checks good and their bad checks too. People will order things and return them, you will need to pay for them anyway even though you weren't paid for it and then there's that restock fee.

The bottom line is that even though you are actually making money on paper, you may need to add cash to your bank account sometimes. This can be especially true when you are trying to expand-- another employee, more inventory, larger building. Maybe a customer wants to buy a $5,000 item from you which in order to resell it to them for $5,500 you need to put up the cash first because it's with a new supplier that doen't know you and you don't have terms with them.

They say most small businesses fail because of cashflow problems. In the beginning, many people spend everything on the grand opening and can't make a go of it because they have nothing left for what I explained above.
 

MXtras

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Retail is second only to Service as far as ease of entry into a new business. Both are relatively easy to get into and can be profitable but require knowledge and cunning.

Retail markets are pretty simple because all you have to do is buy stuff and resell it, right? Nothing is that easy. Craig summed it up well. You have to shuffle your cash to survive. Lines of credit can either save your **** or bury you depending on your ability to stay on top of them and create accurate forecasts - not something a new biz owner is typically very good at.

Loans to start a business can easily become a long term problem to create a short term solution, so be very careful if choosing that il-advised route.

The best advice I have is to consult with a business coach before getting started. There are folks out there who know what you need to know. There is so much to learn that you don't even know you need to know. Ya know?

BTW - I have been in the Manufacturing and new product development biz for 8 years. I have learned a lot and have even farther to go. Long, long story - just like any business.

Scott
 

jimvannoy

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Mississippi
I have been in business fro myself for about 10 years. As far as cash flow I can tell you that some months are better than others. Right now I need to come up with several thousand to buy some inventory (several truck loads of NOS parts) and a couple car projects. I sell old car parts and other stuff online (whatever I can buy cheap and resell for profit), build custom cars, do body work, restore cars, etc. All from my home shop and home office.
 

Freejack

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St. Peters MO
Example of how not to manage cash flow:

My wife worked for a small wedding dress shop.

First some background on this type of retail. Wedding dress sales is a bit different than other types of retail situations, in that you generally don't sell the inventory you have in house, rather it is used as a sample. The customers try on the different samples, pick the one they want and order it. The generally accepted amount down is 50%, which is great, since there is about 100% markup on wedding dresses, so other than the display dresses, you are paying for the inventory before you even order it, which of course is great for cash flow. When the customer picks up the dress, they pay for the remainder, which is then used to cover overhead, selling costs, etc.

Or it should be that way. The shop my wife worked for was so badly managed they were using the downpayments to pay off prior bills, not to cover the cost of dress they needed to order...bad news when you have to do that. Then when it came time to actually order the dress they have to scramble to come up with the money, since most of the suppliers had long since put them on Cash In Advance.

IMPORTANT!

Regardless of whether you are going to do a little handyman work or open a $1Million+ manufacturing facility, NEVER EVER EVER go into business without a sound business plan. Layout in the plan income and expenditures month by month. See what happens if you make worst case senario assumptions. How long can you survive? Find a mentor who has experience in starting a business and ask them to tear into the business and challenge all your assumptions.

Jake
 
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milkovich

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Akron Ohio
No wonder business owners always look so hungry. It's giving me a stomache ache just remembering what my buddy's shops have gone through. Thanks for the clarification.

Focusing on cashflow independent of profit must be a fortune 500 thing (which I doubt I'll have to worry about in my lifetime). Terms and TVM I'm comfortable with, what was throwing me a loop is Chris talking about "cashflow" on a transaction of 6 cents.
 

GTJeff

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Oct 4, 2007
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Southwest Ohio
One more thing...

Some business owners take out more cash than the business can support, to support their own elevated standard of living. Some of this cash might have been from accrued taxes. When the taxes don't get paid, Uncle Sam pulls the plug... :shocking:
 

rsanter

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I have had 3 buisnesses for better or worse. before getting into buisness you need to look at some of the buisness models put out by large franchasise organizations. many will require you to have a reserve of money to operate from beyond the money you have to show that you have to buy the franchise and stock the building and even buy the building.
some months I made money and some months I went into the red.
think about this, this month you work on several customer projects but do not get enough done to collect money from that customer. you also have to pay a bill for the inventory toy ordered for stock and for these projects. you have general bills to pay as well as wages and I am sure you want to take something home as well. it is very easy to get into the red on a given month even if this month you sold alot of stuff.

next month you sold half the amount out of the store, but you collected money from the projects that your guys just bairly finished and you even collected ballance money on some special orders. all of the sudden you may have a nice pool of extra money even thought you sold half the amount.

I used to call this riding the money roller-coaster and that is where you will be untill you can get to the point that you are a BIG buisness. you can also assume you will be running in the red for the whole first years unless you are getting into a pre-packaged buisness (like McDonalds or starbucks) and have a location with high demand for you.
I do not want to discourage you but I want you to have an idea of what you are getting into. the lack of understanding of this and the mismanaging of the money roller coaster is what puts buisnesses out that otherwise look like they are making good money.

if you are going into buisness in a specialty market, I would recomend that you start it as a side buisness to build a customer base or that you be retired and looking for a hobby buisness that you can run out of your home shop.

one side note on my buisness ecperience. I had a automotive buisness doing specialty work (streetrods, race cars, restorations) that I started as a side line to get me some money to do my own projects. I ended up with enough demand that I was almost forced to go legit and get a shop in a comercial area. that shop grew and actually pushed me to do a couple of spinoffs from that shop into other areas of the automotive field. my shop grew and my gross income multiplied requiring be to get a bigger shop and more employees. over several years my take home pay never grew but my responsibility, stress and risk did.
other people (a cross between 'friends' and compeditors in the same line of work) that I knew had nicer shops than me with fancy new equipment that I only dreamed of having. when I bought equipment it was generally used and I generally waited untill I could see the work it would do and figure out how long it would take to earn back the money it cost.
when Desert Storm hit, alot of people held their money instead of spending it on building their toys. the sponsers for my race car went away (smalltime local racing) and for a while my income was roughly cut in half. all of the guys I knew that had the fancy shops with the cool equipment (all of which they were paying notes on) all went out of buisness (one guy went out for the second time in about 10 years) because of a change in the market that they had no control of and otherwise could not have anticipated.
the difference was that all of my equipment was paid for and a bunch I had before I was even a buisness. I also was trying to set money aside as a reserve (which I did not start with) to try to adsorb the hard times. I survived by getting into doing more mundane work that I used to turn away and tightening the belt a few notches to **** it up. several years later after things had gotten better (but not as good as they were before) someone made me an offer for the buisness that I could not refuse. it took me about 3 seconds to accept, take the money and get the hell out. because the guy really did not have a clue of what he was getting into and seemed to think that because he was buying an established buisness that he could be 'the old man in the office' and watch the money come in. he went out of buisness within 2 years.

yes bieng in buisness gave me some great benifits and made me some money, but its not as easy as it seems and there is alot of risk and uncertainty involved that many people cannot deal with. think about it and make a good plan. look at what others have done that went right and went wrong and figure out why before you do the same thing.

bob
 
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Franz©

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Built 5 businesses so far, sold 4 of them to the employees as ESOP operations, and closed the doors on number 5 because the employees were turning it into their concept of an ESOP stealing me blind.

I can tell you it's a hell of a lot easier to run a business you knew damn little about walking in the door than it is to run a business you know the craft walking into. I can also assure everyone the best mechanics make the worst shop owners, be it automotive, electronics, guns, computers or construction.

Here's a short list of the customers you'll encounter.


1) Mr Easy wants exactly what you have in stock, pays cash, and repeats every week.

2) Miss Blonde- Buys what you tell her, pays by chargecard, goes away and is never heard from again

3) Joe Sixpack- Takes hours of your time inquiring about the product, finally buys, calls 23 times for additional information.

4) Mr Painintheass- Came in 9 times comparison shopping, finally bought after you came down on price and is now calling 3 times a day because of paint defects and because it really isn't what he thought he wanted. He wants to return the merch after you already replaced the item in your inventory, and he wants a full refund. By the way, he scrapped the packing and instruction manual.

5) Mr Iwantmore- Bought the product, paid 10 days late on the 30 day account, he wouldn't buy unless you gave him 30, and now he wants the package upgraded to include the features he wouldn't buy to begin with. After all, it's just a software change. He has a lot of friends he can turn onto your product if he is happy.

6) Mr Constantlylate- He can make another payment on his account if you ship him another 700 pieces on his ongoing order that you put on hold because he's already late 45 days late on the Net 30 account. You've got the pieces in inventory anyhow, so work with him. By the way he is sending you another RFQ on a big job. If you give him a good price on that you and he can both get fat.

7) Mr Awcrap- The job is 90% complete and he's on the phone mad as hell. Your installer is a complete Phuckup according to him, and he wishes he never met your company. (jump in the car and go see him, this guy can become your best customer)

8) Your wife's cousin Ernie- Can you get it for me at cost? Ernie already has comitted to resell whatever he wants to buy to one of your potential customers, at 10% below the price you quoted the customer.

9) The Theif- very common among government and large corporation buyers- Calls for a quote, has vague specs, requires your time to come to his premise and fully develope and write a spec for the job. Then takes a black marker to your submission, crosses out the specifics you wrote along with your letterhead to make the spec generic, and sends your spec to 27 potential vendors as a RFQ. This ******* should be shot after he is whipped in the parking lot.

10) The guy of your dreams- calls knowing what he wants, you have it in stock, and he sends his truck to pick it up. Since he doesn't have an open account he sends a check 3 days ahead of the pickup so you can verify payment is good. He will be your customer for the next 10 years, and send you a quart of Cheves Regal every Christmas. Then, he has a heart attack and his kid, the MBA, takes over running the business. Six to nine months later his company owes you $97,331.08 and instead of the check the kid promised you get a Bankruptcy filing notice.

11) Mr Badcheck- this guy is a joy of dimension unforseen. He called in a large order, and since he didn't have an open account was more than willing to take delivery COD Cash or Certified check. The UPS package car driver took the certified check, and it arrived at your door 24 days later. Six days after that, Sally at your bank called, that certified check you deposited bounced so high the bank is calling to let you know they need a deposit within 2 hours or they will have to start bouncing your checks, because your line of credit (something you would have refused if you knew squat) is maxed out, and the bank has put a hold on your deposit acount. You call Badcheck and findout the phone is disconnected. When you calm down enough to call the local cops in his town they tell you he did it to 27 other people and hasn't been seen for 2 weeks. They are pretty sure he was a fraud artist, but they aren't going to devote any assets to looking for him because technicly, it's a civil matter, and the crime occurred outside of their jurisdiction.
As you slam your thumb in the car door heading into the bank to talk to the loan manager you realize you still need to pay for the product Mr Badcheck took you for. At least now you know how the seller on ePay last week was peddling the units on Buy ItNow so damn cheap.

12) Lawyers- Forget it. Unless it's a cash transaction at full price you can't afford to do business with lawyers.

13) Doctors- make lawyers look like charms. Hell they won't even take calls from patients, and most of them don't pay their golfclub memberships on time either.

14) Tony Soprano - odd as it may seem, Tony is a good customer. You sell him what he needs, he pays cash, no receipt necessary, and he's down the road. Just remember to hold to the same terms with his associates.

15) Large corporations - if you can't double the normal price let somebody else have the sale. Their buyer knows more about your business than you do, and he knows how to squeeze your nuts and make you cry. His job is on theline every day, and he keeps what the company actually pays to a minimum.
 

rickairmedic

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Messages
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louisville ,Ky
Franze and Craig pretty much hit the nail on the head straight on . We opened a new HVAC company this year ( got tired of sharing with other peaple ) . We have yellow page adds out the wazoooo , We are on google etc.etc. We have biils out the wazzooooooooooo from said advertising agencies and the phones are very quiet. I know why are the phones quiet well lets see it has been unseasonably warm here, Christmas has just passed The economy SUUCKS right now :D We have an election year comming up I could go on but I think you get the idea and we are doing everything out of pocket no loans no lines of credit with suppliers ( We did this on purpose ) . I will start a new thread with our company web sight link as I would actually like some feedback from yall as consumers.

Rick
 

Holedgr

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Jun 21, 2006
Messages
358
Goddamn, Franz!!!! I just spit coffee on my screen and choked on it all reading your last post!! You know my customer base like it was your own. A very good read.

Everyone who owns a business......PAY ATTENTION!!:D


-T
 
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macdabs

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Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Messages
195
Wait,
The other thing that effects cashflow is your employees! I have two service businesses completly differant one automotive small I do it all 17 plus years , recent 2nd business day job :50 year old , 28 employee company ..
Spend thousands of dollars for training to get a two week notice if your lucky. Highly trained tech, 401k, full health benefits, leaves, this creates a huge cashflow issue!!! Your short help, takes several years to train someone , not counting the customers you loose cause of the training period.
The employee side I think is worse than the customer side anymore!! I had to vent a little . Cashflow is a constant issue , some months you have 10k in bills some 200k, then you have Uncle Sams portion at half with a corp. and it is always due on time.

Macdabs
 

PanelDeland

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Mar 24, 2007
Messages
184
Cash flows into a bussiness and cash flows out.All of the above are the things that affect cashflow.Franz hit most of the major customer groups but missed
Mr.I want the top of the line set-up but I really don't want to have to work hard enough to use it or pay for it so I will just take up hundreds of hours of your time for no apparent gain to you.
I had a salesman in a company once who had several customers who would come by weekly(or so) and take up an hour or two of his time and never buy anything but they priced everything on the floor.Maybe once in a years time would any of them buy anything and the margin on it would be so small it wouldn't pay for the stocking fee(not restocking) and half the time they would want to return it used.This salesman actually spent about 45-50 hours a week and maybe sold one profitable unit per month.I don't know how you can prevent these types from using your time without being rude and getting a bad "word of mouth" rap.
 
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Franz©

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Honestly, I think I need to do a book on business. The posts I see on boards for several of my intrests indicate the majority of people wanting to get into business are damn near clueless. Most don't have a basic understanding of DBA, Sub S, and LLC, but there are 20 people posting on what their third cousin's wife the waitress in the local choke & puke overheard from the halfassed accountant who comes in for coffee.

Customers, the ultimate customer group that will kill a business come into gunshops. Any gunshop owner who fails to realize the shop is a hobby is completely screwed.

Training costs, Motorola had their MRO shops by the balls for years, tecks needed to attend training, shop paid for training, shop paid for Motorola's costs. Tecks caught onto the pay me more or I move on game. Motorola controled what they paid for on warranty and servicing their repeaters. Motorola made SnapOn look geenerous. Every 6 months the factory clown arrived to tell the shop what training he needed to get next. Boy was Motorola pissed when the factory guy walked in and saw 2 competing brands on the salesroom floor.

Salesmen- well those are a different breed of creature. Herb TarlocusAmericanus. Been thru a few of them over time, and have learned a few things. First, unless you're selling Master Card priced merch only, the damn customer MUST first be qualified as a potential buyer! No if and or but about it. It didn't take me long to sit down with sales reports and figure out the salesman was spending 2/3 of his time on customers who couldn't finance the purchase. From then on, his first salescall was to qualify the customer and get a general idea of the job. No qualify, no second sales call. Here's a list of leasing companys, if you find one that will take your paper get back to us. It works out a lot better.

New employees, well I developed a whole new way of hiring people. If the newhire is going to work with Bob, Bob does the initial intervue. Bob don't like the guy's potential find another body. It eliminated a lot of turnover on new hires.

Retention of trained people - not much of a problem since I had a reputation for getting bored with well running businesses and turning them into ESOPs. People looking to be potential owners have a lot more intrest in being good hard workers.

Cost of operation, begin with the absolute knowledge every buck you pay an employee is $2.50 minimum somebody has to bring into the cash register.

I think the most important part of any business plan is the exit strategy. How the hell am I going to get clear of this turkey if it turns to **** and how bad will I get hurt? If you don't know that you're screwed.
 

rsanter

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Location
visalia ca
employees are the bigest headache. espically in an automotive buisness. when dealing with streetrods and vintage cars, the 'professional trained and certified' mechanics are the biggest pains because so many have learned to use the crutch of diagnostic equipmrnt that they forget the basics.

bob
 

TNToy

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1,385
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...when dealing with streetrods and vintage cars, the 'professional trained and certified' mechanics are the biggest pains because so many have learned to use the crutch of diagnostic equipmrnt that they forget the basics.

bob
You mean those aren't OBD-II?

*Waving hand* ... That's me, completely.
I can't remember the last time I picked up a vacuum gauge, read a set of plugs, and I have never owned a timing light. :wtf:;)
 

goodfellow

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Just my $.02 -- what most potential new business owners fail to realize is that once you actually open the door to the place, your life changes instantly. You may be an outstanding mechanic, machinist, barber, whatever.. but the moment you hang your shingle, you become a businessman.

Most folks find out real quick that when they start a business, their time in the shop in numbered. All of the sudden you need to worry about payroll, advertising, taxes, workman's comp, cashflow, inventory -- the list goes on. The more success you have, the more time you need to devote to business management activities and your days in the shop will be numbered.

I've mentored several startups and am always surprised by the mindset of some new business owners. For the most part, they are under the mistaken belief that owning their own business is a way to work in the shop under their own rules -- i.e. vastly different than their previous employer whom they perceived as unfair and/or exploiting.

What they don't realize is that they were able to work at their chosen profession fulltime because their previous employer handled all the business aspects -- now they have to do those jobs themselves, or go out of business. Several folks I worked with just could not come to terms with that basic reality, and eventually went back to working for someone else -- often it was a tough and expensive lesson to learn.
 

Franz©

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Comon now Goodfellow you know as well as I do that Quickbooks only costs $49.95, and it does all the bookkeeping, and the wife will be just so happy to punch all the data in every night. And Quickbooks even writes checks, and does invoices right out of the box.

And being in business will not interfere with family life one bit.
And you can write your own paycheck for whatever you want every week, AND you can add the wife and kids to the payroll to minimize the income tax you pay, AND the bank really doesn't charge for every deposit slip and deposit item.

AND the rat bustard you work for today is getting rich off your sweat.
 

rickairmedic

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Comon now Goodfellow you know as well as I do that Quickbooks only costs $49.95, and it does all the bookkeeping, and the wife will be just so happy to punch all the data in every night. And Quickbooks even writes checks, and does invoices right out of the box.

And being in business will not interfere with family life one bit.
And you can write your own paycheck for whatever you want every week, AND you can add the wife and kids to the payroll to minimize the income tax you pay, AND the bank really doesn't charge for every deposit slip and deposit item.

AND the rat bustard you work for today is getting rich off your sweat.

Now that theres funny I dont care who ya are :lol_hitti:lol_hitti:spit:


Rick
 

Mr.N

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Franz© said:
Built 5 businesses so far, sold 4 of them to the employees as ESOP operations, and closed the doors on number 5 because the employees were turning it into their concept of an ESOP stealing me blind.

I can tell you it's a hell of a lot easier to run a business you knew damn little about walking in the door than it is to run a business you know the craft walking into. I can also assure everyone the best mechanics make the worst shop owners, be it automotive, electronics, guns, computers or construction.

Here's a short list of the customers you'll encounter.


1) Mr Easy wants exactly what you have in stock, pays cash, and repeats every week.

2) Miss Blonde- Buys what you tell her, pays by chargecard, goes away and is never heard from again

3) Joe Sixpack- Takes hours of your time inquiring about the product, finally buys, calls 23 times for additional information.

4) Mr Painintheass- Came in 9 times comparison shopping, finally bought after you came down on price and is now calling 3 times a day because of paint defects and because it really isn't what he thought he wanted. He wants to return the merch after you already replaced the item in your inventory, and he wants a full refund. By the way, he scrapped the packing and instruction manual.

5) Mr Iwantmore- Bought the product, paid 10 days late on the 30 day account, he wouldn't buy unless you gave him 30, and now he wants the package upgraded to include the features he wouldn't buy to begin with. After all, it's just a software change. He has a lot of friends he can turn onto your product if he is happy.

6) Mr Constantlylate- He can make another payment on his account if you ship him another 700 pieces on his ongoing order that you put on hold because he's already late 45 days late on the Net 30 account. You've got the pieces in inventory anyhow, so work with him. By the way he is sending you another RFQ on a big job. If you give him a good price on that you and he can both get fat.

7) Mr Awcrap- The job is 90% complete and he's on the phone mad as hell. Your installer is a complete Phuckup according to him, and he wishes he never met your company. (jump in the car and go see him, this guy can become your best customer)

8) Your wife's cousin Ernie- Can you get it for me at cost? Ernie already has comitted to resell whatever he wants to buy to one of your potential customers, at 10% below the price you quoted the customer.

9) The Theif- very common among government and large corporation buyers- Calls for a quote, has vague specs, requires your time to come to his premise and fully develope and write a spec for the job. Then takes a black marker to your submission, crosses out the specifics you wrote along with your letterhead to make the spec generic, and sends your spec to 27 potential vendors as a RFQ. This ******* should be shot after he is whipped in the parking lot.

10) The guy of your dreams- calls knowing what he wants, you have it in stock, and he sends his truck to pick it up. Since he doesn't have an open account he sends a check 3 days ahead of the pickup so you can verify payment is good. He will be your customer for the next 10 years, and send you a quart of Cheves Regal every Christmas. Then, he has a heart attack and his kid, the MBA, takes over running the business. Six to nine months later his company owes you $97,331.08 and instead of the check the kid promised you get a Bankruptcy filing notice.

11) Mr Badcheck- this guy is a joy of dimension unforseen. He called in a large order, and since he didn't have an open account was more than willing to take delivery COD Cash or Certified check. The UPS package car driver took the certified check, and it arrived at your door 24 days later. Six days after that, Sally at your bank called, that certified check you deposited bounced so high the bank is calling to let you know they need a deposit within 2 hours or they will have to start bouncing your checks, because your line of credit (something you would have refused if you knew squat) is maxed out, and the bank has put a hold on your deposit acount. You call Badcheck and findout the phone is disconnected. When you calm down enough to call the local cops in his town they tell you he did it to 27 other people and hasn't been seen for 2 weeks. They are pretty sure he was a fraud artist, but they aren't going to devote any assets to looking for him because technicly, it's a civil matter, and the crime occurred outside of their jurisdiction.
As you slam your thumb in the car door heading into the bank to talk to the loan manager you realize you still need to pay for the product Mr Badcheck took you for. At least now you know how the seller on ePay last week was peddling the units on Buy ItNow so damn cheap.

12) Lawyers- Forget it. Unless it's a cash transaction at full price you can't afford to do business with lawyers.

13) Doctors- make lawyers look like charms. Hell they won't even take calls from patients, and most of them don't pay their golfclub memberships on time either.

14) Tony Soprano - odd as it may seem, Tony is a good customer. You sell him what he needs, he pays cash, no receipt necessary, and he's down the road. Just remember to hold to the same terms with his associates.

15) Large corporations - if you can't double the normal price let somebody else have the sale. Their buyer knows more about your business than you do, and he knows how to squeeze your nuts and make you cry. His job is on theline every day, and he keeps what the company actually pays to a minimum.

Honestly, I think I need to do a book on business. The posts I see on boards for several of my intrests indicate the majority of people wanting to get into business are damn near clueless. Most don't have a basic understanding of DBA, Sub S, and LLC, but there are 20 people posting on what their third cousin's wife the waitress in the local choke & puke overheard from the halfassed accountant who comes in for coffee.

Customers, the ultimate customer group that will kill a business come into gunshops. Any gunshop owner who fails to realize the shop is a hobby is completely screwed.

Training costs, Motorola had their MRO shops by the balls for years, tecks needed to attend training, shop paid for training, shop paid for Motorola's costs. Tecks caught onto the pay me more or I move on game. Motorola controled what they paid for on warranty and servicing their repeaters. Motorola made SnapOn look geenerous. Every 6 months the factory clown arrived to tell the shop what training he needed to get next. Boy was Motorola pissed when the factory guy walked in and saw 2 competing brands on the salesroom floor.

Salesmen- well those are a different breed of creature. Herb TarlocusAmericanus. Been thru a few of them over time, and have learned a few things. First, unless you're selling Master Card priced merch only, the damn customer MUST first be qualified as a potential buyer! No if and or but about it. It didn't take me long to sit down with sales reports and figure out the salesman was spending 2/3 of his time on customers who couldn't finance the purchase. From then on, his first salescall was to qualify the customer and get a general idea of the job. No qualify, no second sales call. Here's a list of leasing companys, if you find one that will take your paper get back to us. It works out a lot better.

New employees, well I developed a whole new way of hiring people. If the newhire is going to work with Bob, Bob does the initial intervue. Bob don't like the guy's potential find another body. It eliminated a lot of turnover on new hires.

Retention of trained people - not much of a problem since I had a reputation for getting bored with well running businesses and turning them into ESOPs. People looking to be potential owners have a lot more intrest in being good hard workers.

Cost of operation, begin with the absolute knowledge every buck you pay an employee is $2.50 minimum somebody has to bring into the cash register.

I think the most important part of any business plan is the exit strategy. How the hell am I going to get clear of this turkey if it turns to **** and how bad will I get hurt? If you don't know that you're screwed.
Thank you, a very good read!


macdabs, Just have to vent from the other side. I was an employee that pulled in 80% of the profit for a 20-25 person shop. I had a manger, and shop manger above me. I asked for a raise, and had very good reason. I was told no, so I got a new job. 8 month later the shop closed!
Lesson to business owners, don't let one guy do it all. (and worst of all don't let a manger snowball you into thinking he is doing it all)
 

signshop

Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
18
Franz, You're cracking me up. Very insightful though. I own a small sign company in Michigan (1 state recessionland) Most of your points are very close to my personal experiences. I landed a fantastic gig for about three months (unheard of with signs) My wife is a CPA and 'handles' my quickbooks, and my employees are fantastic. But you are right, I work 16-18 hours a day, 7 days a week and I spend as much money as I want....it's just never seems to be for me. I caught my Mom calling me 'money bags' a couple weeks ago and nearly lit into her about it. She definatley does not see the 'cash flowing out' side of the story.

With your cash flow troubles, I have another fine example: I do alot of work with developers. They do repeat work, give me free reign to do whatever designs I like and they pay their bills. But the reality is almost not worth it. The terms that they demand are nearly impossible.

Here's the timeline: They contract me to do the work day 1, day 2 I buy all supplies to finish the job - this is my cash outlay, then I spend the time designing and building whatever it is that they want and install it - 1-5 weeks time, next I invoice them usually a net 30 term, they usally pay within the 30 days, looks great right? Except when you multiply it out, you are carrying that $1000.00 cash outlay job for 2 months which doesn't seem so bad until you add eight other jobs just like it within the same time frame and the you are carrying $8K outlay for 2 months plus all of the other expenses of a business operation - 'keeping the lights on'

And you ask why not have them pay a deposit up front or pay the whole thing up front? Because, they'll take the work elsewhere in a minute and I'll have nothing coming.

I think next I should start growing money trees....
 

devinchi

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2006
Messages
71
Location
Perkinsville VT
I have never owned a business, but have sat and watched the process a number of times, from different perspectives.

A friend of mine was looking at buying a Ski Area. He had all the money to buy it, bring all the equipment up to spec, and get everything running. BUt he knew what he was up against, he walked away because he would only be able to float the business for one season. He knew that with everything he would have to go into it with the cash to float it for a least 2 years before he knew he could turn a profit. He had put almost a full year of work into this, and had dumped some serious money into all the research, and he walked away. He knew what had to be done, and didn't have it.

He told me when it comes to business, Kenny Rogers had some good advice:

You got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
 

Joosenbop

New member
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
1
Entertaining thread. I've never owned a business but think about it quite often. I appreaciate the insight and humor. I just want to know: Given the chance, would you do it all over again?
 

Franz©

Banned
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
1,006
Location
in a house
Naw, but that's only because I'm too damn old now.

I also live in the most regulated highest taxed area of NY State, close enough to Stizzy to drop golfballs on his roof from my dooryard.

Hey Stiz, got a helmet?
 
OP
M

milkovich

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2007
Messages
689
Location
Akron Ohio
Thanks for the post Franz. I've sat on both sides of the table as a salesman and a buyer and can't help but laugh at some of the profiles you posted. The thief is the best, I've seen it time and time again and it is illegal and almost un-enforceable. Supplier's sales engineers sure are cheaper than hiring your own or even consultants.

I'm thinking I need to go back to school and get an MBA so I can run a company into the ground... those guys always seem like they drive the nicest cars. Maybe I'll get to pay $120 for your textbook (net 180 so I can return it after the semester is over of course :FIREdevil)
 

Franz©

Banned
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
1,006
Location
in a house
From the day I received a bid package from the County Zoo including my original proposal with blacked out lines, each and every subscequent proposal went out with some very explanitory text at the top.

A few months later even guys who used NEBS proposals were calling to let me know a customer had handed my proposal to them to quote on, © is such an effective character on text.

Possibly the best moment was the call from the County Attorney asking me what I would settle for as a fee for the proposal the Zoo swiped. I think we negotiated it to around $1000-. Oddly, the Zoo had a few personell changes in the office too.

Based on what I see you shouldn't need to go back to school for one of those MBA things. Even if you don't go the Columbia Paciffica route, you can pretty much print your own up, sure don't seem like anybody checks. I offered one time to wander thru the personell files of a hospital and check for fake degrees. They refused the offer.
 

BECC

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
60
Location
St Augustine Florida
Franz - you should write that book.

I am a General Contractor . I have 2 guys working for me running jobs and my wife doing accounts payables & receivables. One is an ex auto parts asst manager adapted to construction like a duct to water says the temperment of a mechanic and a carpenter arent that different. Here is my take on business:

The business is organized day-care for adults you have to make sure that
1 - they play well together (scheduling)
2 - play safe together (OSHA)
3 - have all their toys (materials)
4 - abide by the golden rule (be honest)
5 - be a referrie when they get mad at each other

Work hours I get up at 6:30 in the morning work until 6 eat dinner and then me and the wife go over bills etc. and hopefully not get into an argument

You hope you get paid for what you do, watch for customers that tell you, I have a lot of friends that need work and if you cut me a deal then you will get more work - THIS IS BS.

KNOW THE LAWS - read up on lien laws - tax laws, don't just rely on just calling the lawyer or accountant.

read, listen to tapes on how to run a business and how to be successful, plan out your business, develop a business plan.

Calculate your cash flow, figure out how much it is going cost you each month to do business (rent, electric, water, gas, fuel, parts, insurance, taxes, payroll, etc.) List it all out and put a dollar figure to it, this will be your budget.

Now go out and have fun get used to waking up at 2 am and not being able to get back to sleep because you are worrying if you are going to get a job, make enough to pay the bills and forget about your hobbies you will have no time forget about vacations you will have no time forget about a normal life as you are a business owner!
 
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Willy Victor

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 9, 2006
Messages
444
I'm going to give you guys a hot tip{Buy low and sell high}It has always worked for me.:Homer::Homer::Homer:


Willy
 
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