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Interesting fact about Wera.

Titanium Steel

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Apr 21, 2012
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So I recently had a live chat with a representative from Chadstool box about a Wera product I had even called Wera about a while back. This was a question in regards to a product similar to the Wiha 38025, which is a CAT IV rated magnetic bit holder handle with a storage bit magazine on the bottom.

What she said mirrored what a Wera rep told me, but more detail was added in her comment.

This is Chad's Tools' live chat support agent's comment.

"No, I'm not familiar with one from WERA. I think I remember talk of it in a meeting, something about it not being "responsible" to use loose bits in an area of possible voltage contact, so they are not interested in making one without positive locks."

Also she wrote this.

"they make a line with interchangeable blades that positively lock in place."

I found this needless to say a bit amusing as even though Wiha (Wera's business rival) produces a line of insulated magnetic bit holders, Wera doesn't. All because of liability issues. Yet Wiha has made one with IEC/EN and VDE testing standards, among others, so I am little perplexed why Wera would shy away from making their own line of insulated magnetic bit holders.

This is quite amusing to say the least. This is what the 38025 looks like. http://www.all-spec.com/products/38025.html
 
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ATTappman

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The most interesting fact in this story is that somebody actually answered the live chat request at chadstoolbox.com.
 

vintagefan

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Mar 2, 2012
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Personally Wiha > Wera

Agree. Wiha still makes their screwdrivers in Germany, and they are much more durable in my experience.

I like Wera, but I love Wiha.

The most interesting fact in this story is that somebody actually answered the live chat request at chadstoolbox.com.

So true... that's like walking around a corner and finding a talking unicorn standing there.
 

Roots

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This is Chad's Tools' live chat support agent's comment.

"No, I'm not familiar with one from WERA. I think I remember talk of it in a meeting, something about it not being "responsible" to use loose bits in an area of possible voltage contact, so they are not interested in making one without positive locks."

Also she wrote this.

"they make a line with interchangeable blades that positively lock in place."

I found this needless to say a bit amusing as even though Wiha (Wera's business rival) produces a line of insulated magnetic bit holders, Wera doesn't. All because of liability issues. Yet Wiha has made one with IEC/EN and VDE testing standards, among others, so I am little perplexed why Wera would shy away from making their own line of insulated magnetic bit holders.

This is quite amusing to say the least.

I don't believe the testing standards that Wiha adheres to have anything to do with the magnetic bit holder portion. Personally, I advocate the same position that Wera holds... it's just asking for trouble to use a magnetic bit driver with energized equipment. While a positive locking bit driver wouldn't be too conducive to working in an energized compartment. ...than again, what are you doing working in an energized compartment for? :willy_nil ;)
 
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Titanium Steel

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Vintagefan: Don't think for a minute she tried dodging this question and just telling "not in stock." I think after 10 sentences she realized I wasn't going to quit without a solid answer. While I was entirely polite with the agent, I did have a tone of "don't try to dodge the question because I am not leaving without an answer.

T1: I know of Felo and I know Bondhus bought that company some time ago. It's not as if they don't produce great products, but with insulation, I have to be picky. Reason being is the voltages I sometimes deal with are anywhere from 200 volts up.

That is why I am glad both Wiha and Wera test all their insulated products with Association of German Electro Technicians (VDE) and International Electro Technical Commission (IEC) as Only VDE & EN/IEC actually require individual Tool testing and provide certificates of compliance for testing procedures, equipment
and production unit compliance for insulation integrity.

American Society for Testing & Materials (ASTM), National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) International Organization for Standard (ISO) Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) Canadian Standards Association (CSA) are great safety ratings no doubt.

However ASTM, ISO, NFPA, CSA, OSHA Do not test tools for compliance they set guidelines for insulation performance standards & specifications. In addition, Claiming To meet insulation test standards is not the same as actually being tested and approved though.

That is just incorrect and with electricity you can't take risks. Take from a guy whose been shocked before, it's not fun at all.

Between Wera and Wiha, I like them both. They both have their niches and both have their positives and negatives.

With Wiha, (this is just my personal opinion here) I like them best for their dead blow line, precision line (not pro turn though), some of their specialty products (notched mini pry bar being one of them) insulated needle nose pliers (again not the pro turn line though) and their ESD safe torx plus line.

I love my Wiha dead blow, I've used other brands (Craftsman, Vaughn, etc) but none of them really were that great. I'll will add that Armstrong dead blow though would be a top contender though, as now that can actually handle real world work and a tremendous amount of force as well.

I also like my Wiha Phillips #000 screwdriver, only 40 mm, has a satin nickel finish, made 100% in Germany and the rotating cap is much more silent and easier than other brands as well.

However, my problem with Wiha though is that not all their products are made in Germany and their Pro-turn line is for the most part worth avoiding all together. As one can guess where said products are made.

Another issue I've had in the past with Wiha is that, while their insulation is top notch and really is remarkably better than most insulation most insulated tools, I sometimes find the insulation too stiff. This is only an issue because there is always that one time I drop the insulated tool or if the tool rolls off a table or surface (this is bound to happen once in the tool's life time, has with me) if the insulation (for what ever reason) is damaged, then I either have to hope that Wiha will provide me a brand new tool or am forced to buy a brand new Wiha insulated tool.

As Wiha (and Wera for that matter) have both told me via phone calls and writing on their websites that one should discard tools if the insulated coating appears to have been penetrated or does not appear to be fully adhering to the surface of the tool.

I know this may not sound as if this is a big deal and I bet there are people don't adhere to those rules, but they are taking a life or death gamble. I spoke to a electrician at work once who told me a story about a licensed, bonded and even insured electrician whom, despite doing this work for nearly 35 years, he himself was electrocuted and rushed to the ER, merely due to the fact the insulated tool he had had it's coating someone peeled off and wasn't really adhering anymore.

This guy also told me, if it weren't for someone else who was beside him, the guy who had been electrocuted could have easily died right then and there if no one was there to help him get to the ER.

So that is why I am completely serious when I choose insulated tools myself.

Now I like Wera because, again in my personal opinion, they create the best type of insulation in the industry of CAT IV rated insulation, but I also like the fact every[/i] product they produce is made in Czech Republic and no where else. In addition, I've personally found their tools to be a bit less expensive, but still keep top quality (in some cases even exceptional quality) and the products typically include benefits other companies skip.

Such as air tight caps for their insulated Slotted line. That to me is a giant plus and really a nice touch as well when your buying a product. Now I am not sure if that is the case with all their insulated tools, but sure was the case with this one.

I also like that most of their insulated tools have a no roll guard built into the handles and for once the tool actually won't roll or become unbalanced. Now I am not sure if this is true or not, but I heard online that Wera has a hot line specially set up should the tool ever roll and or cause any other issues.

Do I like Wera better than Wiha? With their insulated products, yes. But do I like Wiha's precision line better than Wera's? Yes I do. Both have their strengths and both have products I like more than the other companies.
 

BionicSniper

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While I do not use any of their insulated tools, I have almost their entire line of ESD safe tools for use on electronics.

I have found nothing that works as well and the tips are incredibly durable.

Now their magic ring hex tools however... The 'magic ring' portion has a tendency to break.
 
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Roots

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That is why I am glad both Wiha and Wera test all their insulated products with Association of German Electro Technicians (VDE) and International Electro Technical Commission (IEC) as Only VDE & EN/IEC actually require individual Tool testing and provide certificates of compliance for testing procedures, equipment
and production unit compliance for insulation integrity.

American Society for Testing & Materials (ASTM), National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) International Organization for Standard (ISO) Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) Canadian Standards Association (CSA) are great safety ratings no doubt.

However ASTM, ISO, NFPA, CSA, OSHA Do not test tools for compliance they set guidelines for insulation performance standards & specifications. In addition, Claiming To meet insulation test standards is not the same as actually being tested and approved though.

Wiha and Wera are not the only company that adheres to individual testing per IEC standards. Numerous other specialty electrical companies and regular broad line tool companies do as well. Additionally OSHA by way of referencing the NFPA, does require insulation testing on many tools. Although it gets a bit too complicated to quickly summarize. Than again, it's a bit complicated when ever you work on live equipment... and rarely, even by so called professionals, is proper protocol followed. For what it's worth, the issues you mention with insulation layers are the very reason many electrical workers prefer composites instead.
 

compman25

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My Felo's are marked IEC 609002004 and AC 1000V. Same as the one posted above at Amazon.com and made in Germany
 

caseyjw

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you shouldn't trust insulated drivers - just work on dead circuits.
 
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Titanium Steel

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With complete all due respect intended, what has given anyone the impression I would be working on live circuits? Truthfully, I can't think of a time I've ever worked on a live circuit at any time while in service. One that isn't exactly safe and too, there is no reason (for me).

I just find this surprising (with Wera) that despite the fact Wiha produces a CAT IV rated, VDE, IEC/EN tested (as I said in my previous post other standards are used in this tool) magnetized bit holder handle and Wera doesn't.

This isn't about quality of either companies tools or even anything remotely related to that. This is about one company producing a insulated tool that another does not. Do I fully understand where Wera is coming from? Mostly yes, but there is a part of me that doesn't.

I imagine Wiha uses a rare earth magnet to magnetize their 38025 product, but considering Wiha produces their own steel with some items, there is always that chance they could be using that steel or even invented another type of steel.

I don't work for Wiha nor was I the engineer who designed this product. The universe is full of possibilities though. Believe me or not, this is just a bit perplexing to me.
 

PRH44

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I have both Wiha and Wera drivers, insulated and uninsulated. While both are quality tools. I prefer the grip,comfort and tips of the Wiha.
I have picked up a magnetic insulated holder Wiha 38006. The magnet is very strong, the strongest I have experienced. However I just cannot convince myself that sticking one those bits on an energized terminal where it could stick and become dislodged from the holder is safe practice.
We have developed very strict hot work policies over the years to protect our electricians.
One of the most important aspects of hot work is the control of the tools. Loose components on any tool just wont make it past my check list. Rendering insulated magnetic holders "Not acceptable for Hot Work" in my eyes.
I have seen nasty things happen with multi tools (such as 10-in-1s etc) in energized work simply because they come apart.
Successful energized work is a culmination of several factors.The insulated tool itself is rarely totally relied upon. Precautions are taken to insulate oneself . A well thought out plan with a methodical approach and a steady hand. A clear understanding of the fault current value and arc flash magnitudes your dealing with. The proper Personal Protective Equipment. Take a look at NFPA70E
Are all these steps considered by all? NO. The more one considers these the better chance he makes it home with his life and face intact. Not to mention destruction of expensive equipment and costly down time.

Take a look at this video, an example of not having a full understanding of the the fault currents that produce Arc flash,
 
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Titanium Steel

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PRH44: Wow, that video makes the one I watched on Disaster DIY look like nothing. This guy on that cut into main power with a diagonal cutter you buy at Harbor Freight and surprisingly, he only was slightly shocked.

Seeing that video though, just re-enforces the idea to always cut the power the second you start any electrical work.

I've been meaning to find some Arc flash gloves, but I can't seem to find any decently designed ones even at Grainger though.

Powerful video though, I think I'll share that with others now though. Thanks for posting that though. I really hope that guy was able to escape some how though in the video.
 

Roots

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With complete all due respect intended, what has given anyone the impression I would be working on live circuits? Truthfully, I can't think of a time I've ever worked on a live circuit at any time while in service. One that isn't exactly safe and too, there is no reason (for me).

I just find this surprising (with Wera) that despite the fact Wiha produces a CAT IV rated, VDE, IEC/EN tested (as I said in my previous post other standards are used in this tool) magnetized bit holder handle and Wera doesn't.

This isn't about quality of either companies tools or even anything remotely related to that. This is about one company producing a insulated tool that another does not. Do I fully understand where Wera is coming from? Mostly yes, but there is a part of me that doesn't.

I imagine Wiha uses a rare earth magnet to magnetize their 38025 product, but considering Wiha produces their own steel with some items, there is always that chance they could be using that steel or even invented another type of steel.

I don't work for Wiha nor was I the engineer who designed this product. The universe is full of possibilities though. Believe me or not, this is just a bit perplexing to me.

OP, you create a thread on insulated tools and than proceed to mention live voltage testing of them... are you really not sure how someone could presume you may work on/in proximity of energized equipment?

Wiha has decided not to fret about the liability of using multi-bits... Wera thinks it's risky, which I agree with. I'm not quite seeing the great mystery you're pondering.
 
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Titanium Steel

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Roots: If I did insulate that fact, that is not what I meant at all. Not in the very least. I don't know about anyone else here, but after watching that video, I sure wouldn't want to work on a energized or around one. Then again, I am not a electrician or factory worker that deals with high voltages.

To answer your question, the reason I see this as a "great mystery" as you said yourself, is that I just find odd, that's it. I know the reasoning and I understand the reasoning, but to each their own with some companies.

Would have liked to support Wera, but I have no issues supporting Wiha either. But at the end of the day, I'd like to say we all can agree that both companies have products we really like and products from one company we like more than the other company.
 
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