Running service wire in crawl space AND underground

[justinae]

Hi all. I've been doing a lot of research and tried to answer this question myself but can't seem to get a clear answer.

First, I live in Portland, OR have a detached garage and a new 200 amp panel in the house. Feeder wiring will run in interior wall about 5', through the crawl space about 35', underground about 5', and then up the garage wall about 5'.

It seems I can run 2-2-2-4 service wire by itself in the walls and crawl space, but I am not allowed to run that in conduit in the ground, nor direct bury it (according to an electrician I talked to). A suggestion was made to run the 2-2-2-4 to the end of the crawl space and then using a jbox and split bolts, splice individual conductors and run them underground in PVC conduit.

The other option suggested is run PVC conduit from panel to panel and run individual conductors the whole way.

Is there an option that I'm missing? I'd rather not do the splicing, and it seems odd that there wouldn't be a bundled option that allows me to run underground a few feet.

Many thanks in advance.
Justin

[matt151617]

Correct... you cannot run SER in conduit. You need individual THWN wires; or the easier option is mobile home feeder. It is much easier to run SER to a box, transition to conduit, and then run conduit right into the subpanel.

[justinae]

Ok. That's good to know. It just seems odd that there isn't one type of wire that fits this very common scenario. Considering 3 #2 and 1 #4, and using split bolt connectors wrapped in what looks like a ton of tape, what size j box would you recommend? Can I use a non metal box to avoid having to ground it?

Thanks!

['04 Cummins]

Originally Posted by justinae

Ok. That's good to know. It just seems odd that there isn't one type of wire that fits this very common scenario. Considering 3 #2 and 1 #4, and using split bolt connectors wrapped in what looks like a ton of tape, what size j box would you recommend? Can I use a non metal box to avoid having to ground it?

Thanks!

Use these connectors instead of split bolts:

Purchase them at any electrical supply house, sized for your wire. Split bolts require rubber splicing tape, then 3M #33. There is a proper way tape them, and many improper ways.

Use a PVC box w/ gasketed cover, say 8x8x4...


Personally, I would run conduit the entire way and use THWN conductors.

[justinae]

Those look way easier. What are they called?

I'll be pricing out conduit and individual conductors vs. spliced system.

Thanks

['04 Cummins]

NSI Polaris lugs. You would want part number IT-1/0.

Here's a Fleabay link for further details: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NSI-Polaris-...item19d3cbfb5c

[pattenp]

I did the 2-2-2-4 SER from my main panel to a junction box and transitioned to 2-2-2-4 Mobile Home Feeder (MHF) which I ran in 2" PVC conduit to the panel in the detached garage. It is perfectly fine to do a splice. I used splice/reducers and used shrink tube to insulate. The Polaris connectors are very expensive.

['04 Cummins]

A quick look at prices puts the polaris lugs a bit more, but not by much when you factor in tape or heat shrink... Plus they're so damn easy. When I'm in a crawl space, I want easy, but that's just me

[brewchief]

Originally Posted by '04 Cummins

A quick look at prices puts the polaris lugs a bit more, but not by much when you factor in tape or heat shrink... Plus they're so damn easy. When I'm in a crawl space, I want easy, but that's just me

It's not just you, I prefer easy if I can, I've used the Burndy version of the Polaris connectors and it's a lot easier then split bolts and tape.

If you can run conduit the whole way from panel to panel that's great, just remember no more then 360 degrees of bend before a pull point.

[justinae]

Yep I'm going to line out the pricing. For what it's worth, I'll report back what I find.

I wonder what you all have found easier. Running conduit in a crawl space and pulling through vs. running SER and a junction.

I've never run conduit before. It seems straight forward, but could you explain a "pull point"?

Thanks

[justinae]

It came out about $25 cheaper to run conduit all the way. At this point my question is about installation. I have post and beam construction with a crawl space, no rim joist so I don't think I have enough room for one of those long sweep 90s to get into the crawl. I plan to use 2" conduit. Is there an offset or some other kind of method to navigate the sill plate?

Thanks

[matt151617]

If a 90 bend won't fit then put a LB fitting. They're huge, but it'll allow you to make a sharp turn.

[pattenp]

These are conduit bodies such as LB's, LL's etc. and are used as pull points.

[ishiboo]

Originally Posted by pattenp

I did the 2-2-2-4 SER from my main panel to a junction box and transitioned to 2-2-2-4 Mobile Home Feeder (MHF) which I ran in 2" PVC conduit to the panel in the detached garage. It is perfectly fine to do a splice. I used splice/reducers and used shrink tube to insulate. The Polaris connectors are very expensive.

I used this to splice my service entrance, worked well. They have kits at the local BORG stores with the connectors and matching heat shrink.

[justinae]

Originally Posted by pattenp

These are conduit bodies such as LB's, LL's etc. and are used as pull points.

Can the #2 wires make that sharp snaking turn? So you pull it through the LB and then how do you pull through the next runs of conduit when they are not connected to the LB? Sorry if that is obvious.

Thanks!

[ishiboo]

Originally Posted by justinae

Can the #2 wires make that sharp snaking turn? So you pull it through the LB and then how do you pull through the next runs of conduit when they are not connected to the LB? Sorry if that is obvious.

Thanks!

It's a pull point... you basically have to pull all you need to the LB, and then stuff the wire and start pulling it through the next "segment"... you won't be able to pull through multiple LBs. If you screw up, you can manually adjust at an LB though.

If the wire fits, anything can be done when you have accessible LBs and sweeping corners. The difficulty pulling is directly related to the degress of bends/etc., sharp corners (bad), use of lube, and the diameter of your conduit... as you'd expect.

Remember that the professionals use a pull line (NOT push the wire) and like any electrifying activity - use plenty of lube!

[justinae]

What kind of lube is best?

[matt151617]

Originally Posted by justinae

What kind of lube is best?

They make lube specifically for pulling wires, available in Lowes/Home Depot. I used dish soap but it probably wasn't the best idea. But it did work.

[70z rex]

I just finished a jacuzzi install and i 2nd the use of polaris plugs, So simple and such a cleaner job for me anyway. I paid 16 dollars each at California Electric in El Cajon CA.

Rex

[justinae]

OK, I'm ready to run my wire. I decided to use the SER wire instead of conduit. Here is my plan.

Run 2-2-2-4 from inside 200 amp panel down wall and through crawl space.
Junction using Polaris plugs (or similar) and put in junction box
Transition to 1 1/2" PVC conduit
Run 1 1/2" PVC conduit the 4 feet from house to garage at 24" below ground level
Use LB fitting to get inside garage

This is where I'm confused. Since I'm running individual wires from the junction box in the crawl space, do I have to have conduit all the way to the panel in the garage? I'm assuming so. So how do I get conduit through the wall without it being ugly?

Install 100 amp breaker in 200 amp panel in house.

Any advice on the plan would be appreciated.

Thanks!