1 large vs 2 smaller garages.

64coupedeluxe · May 23, 2013

Hi Guys,

Need some thoughts and opinions.I collect and restore muscle cars as a hobby.

Had originally thought of building a 30x48x12 barn which grew to 56 long, just to store enough of my stuff. Was going to section off a workshop at 1 end with a door going in the long side with a proposed 2 post lift at some stage. And a 16 wide door in gable end.

Then I thought of building a dedicated workshop of 24x32x12 and another of storage at 24x40x10. Even though going with 2 buildings would cost more I would have them at right angles to each other and they would share the driveway as opposed to one long building and 2 different doors, which would bring the difference down. The square footage for inside concrete is only an extra 48sq' for 2 buildings so not much difference in price.

I would also only finish off the workshop with insulation etc and only have basic lights and outlets in the storage shop.

Both my wife and I like the idea of 2 smaller shops as they would be more aesthetically pleasing.

They will be pole barns as I don't have the time or friends to help build stick and with the increased costs of the foundation having a contractor build them would be pricey. I am in South Jersey.

Which ever way I go I will be having a lean to, to store a tractor, car trailer etc.

What have I missed?

Do you think a 24'wide workshop will be ok?

Thanks,
Brendon

theoldwizard1 · May 23, 2013

64coupedeluxe said:
Hi Guys,
Both my wife and I like the idea of 2 smaller shops as they would be more aesthetically pleasing.

For someone who collects and restores muscle cars, money is not likely an issue.

"Happy wife, happy life !"

64coupedeluxe · May 23, 2013

theoldwizard1 said:
For someone who collects and restores muscle cars, money is not likely an issue.

"Happy wife, happy life !"

Money is always an issue.

blackz26 · May 23, 2013

For a real answer, Id say the two smaller shops
Work/play, clean/dirty, fix/show etc.

justanengineer · May 23, 2013

Im a big fan of multiple buildings. Attach one to the house for convenient parking/storage. Put the other hidden out back somewhere so the next owner can convert it to a pool/guest house. As previously said, then you can have a dirty shop and a clean garage. Also, its very easy to have a shop TOO big IMHO bc then it becomes storage for bs and projects instead of a shop.

A single large building is nice until you go to sell it, then its a PITA, so Id agree that youre on the right track currently.

rsanter · May 23, 2013

2 buildings in the L orientation. Lean to parking cover between them

Bob

blackz26 · May 23, 2013

Who cares about selling or the next owner? You build things for you, not the "next owner"

shampoop · May 23, 2013

1 large

Glenn M. · May 24, 2013

If you do both body and mechanical work, separate shops for each. Put a "clean", separate storage space in the body shop for storing interiors, glass, etc., that you strip off cars that you're going to do body work/paint to. It's nice to have a separate room in the mechanical shop for parts storage, tool room, and engine building, in addition to doing work on the full chassis car in the main bay(s). Storage for your completed cars should be clean and separate from the shops.
Just my $0.02 worth...

mrpizza · May 24, 2013

I say two buildings. I hope my next house will get a shop, so I can have a regular garage for parking, and a shop for tools and maintenance and everything else.

justanengineer · May 24, 2013

blackz26 said:
Who cares about selling or the next owner? You build things for you, not the "next owner"

I build to add value and not to lose money. Im planning to move for a promotion/significant pay increase, likely jump states and cross the country nearly every time, every 5-8 years for work just as I did in the military. If youre one of those folks who plan on staying in one town your entire life, feel free to build something crazy for yourself and hope you never need the money from it to live as many old folks in the retirement home do. The rest of us need to plan accordingly otherwise. My parents are in the process of selling the property theyve had for 30+ years now to downsize and be closer to family. Its been tough bc of the 40'x100' shop and the second smaller shop, even in an area with very high property demand. Most people are put off by a big tax bill bc of infrastructure/buildings they have no use for.

hifi_hokie · May 24, 2013

I'd do two buildings, but I have hobbies that don't play well together.

Engines, electronics repair and woodworking don't know how to share.

Kevin54 · May 24, 2013

One building that looks like an "L". That way, you can always go from one to the other without going out in the weather.

One thing you may want to do is check with your local County Auditor and see how it would affect your property taxes if it is one large building or two smaller buildings. It may make a big enough difference to come to your conclusion a little better.

NUTTSGT · May 24, 2013

I'd rather have one building over two most of the time. seeing as you're doing body work on older cars, two might be nice or one nice laid out shop. One thing to keep in mind is that having two shops just may require both to have a set of tools, or 1 single set spread out.

I'd make it 28' deep over the 24'. The extra 4 feet will be quite forgiving if you bring in a larger vehicle or full size pick up.

Ray916MN · May 24, 2013

Aesthetics and usability are the things to consider in addition to cost.

If the building(s) are going to be close to a home, you have to be careful to keep the scale of the building(s) balanced with the home. Nothing like a pole barn making your home look tiny to devalue a property.

OTOH, high ceiling heights in smaller buildings result in odd proportions too, so if you want buildings with enough ceiling height for a lift, a small building can end up looking a bit funny. Too tall relative to it depth and/or width. With this in mind a single large building with a taller ceiling height can look better and be less expensive with respect to total volume than two small buildings with the savings used to pay for lifts so the extra ceiling height can be effectively used. The implicit tradeoff with a single large building is accessibility. Stacked storage or two deep parking implied in a single large building means more juggling to get buried stuff out.

FWIW

larry_g · May 24, 2013

Be honest here. Are you the kinda person who has one project going at a time or will you have multiple cars being worked on at a time? If you can really have finished cars stored in one building and just work in the other then yes two make sense. On nicely finished heated and cooled workshop, the other bare bones storage/parking. Me I have multiple projects going and still find in one shop that I am running from one side to the other to get things done. I could only dream of being the kind of guy that can see one thing through to finish before starting another.

So my answer to you would be to really understand the kind of worker you are and your work style will dictate building layout.

lg
no neat sig line

zcar751 · May 25, 2013

I have the 24 X 40 garage and would rather have a bigger space than to add a second space. IMHO. :beer:

I can see the benefits to having separate spaces in regards to heating cooling work space lay out.
As to the 24 foot depth, I would say you could get by but would push you to go deeper say 28 feet. I have a Ramcharger that when pulled in to my shop and the door closed I have about 6 feet to work with, but I do have a 18" deep storage shelve on the back wall. Now if I was working on a 70 challenger :pimpflash

I would be down to 4 feet, which is not much room to get around.

64coupedeluxe · May 25, 2013

All good ideas and input.

Our house is 83'x34'(width at garage end).

We are concerned with the barn/barns taking over the property. I attached a screen shot of our place so hopefully it works as I've never done that before.

Our other problem is we need a variance for anything over 600sq' which is not a big deal as plenty of property's have barns larger than this and we are on just under 5 acres.

We would also like to have the barn 10 or so feet in front of the front line of our house which is another variance needed.

With the way our has is situated on the property the pole barn will be seen driving down the road and the first thing you would see as you hit our place. We are at the end of a circle/cul desac. We will be planting trees etc to soften the look. The previous owners cleared the property and in the last 2 years I have planted around 180 trees.

It would be placed to the right of the house and slightly forward. We dont want it behind the house as it would ruin our view of the woods and also the cost of paving/services back there would be huge. It would also mean a driveway cutting through our yard.

The land to the rear and bottom left of the screenshot slopes away quite a lot and the foundation build up would be expensive, and also the cost of a driveway etc back there.

64coupedeluxe · May 25, 2013

zcar751 said:
I have the 24 X 40 garage and would rather have a bigger space than to add a second space. IMHO. I can see the benefits to having separate spaces in regards to heating cooling work space lay out.
As to the 24 foot depth, I would say you could get by but would push you to go deeper say 28 feet. I have a Ramcharger that when pulled in to my shop and the door closed I have about 6 feet to work with, but I do have a 18" deep storage shelve on the back wall. Now if I was working on a 70 challenger I would be down to 4 feet, which is not much room to get around.

The 24 foot would be the width of the building in both cases and the doors will be in the gable ends.

64coupedeluxe · May 25, 2013

larry_g said:
Be honest here. Are you the kinda person who has one project going at a time or will you have multiple cars being worked on at a time? If you can really have finished cars stored in one building and just work in the other then yes two make sense. On nicely finished heated and cooled workshop, the other bare bones storage/parking. Me I have multiple projects going and still find in one shop that I am running from one side to the other to get things done. I could only dream of being the kind of guy that can see one thing through to finish before starting another.

So my answer to you would be to really understand the kind of worker you are and your work style will dictate building layout.

lg
no neat sig line

Yes I will probably have a couple of jobs on the go at once, due to other commitments. But with the major work being done in the shop.

And in that respect one larger building with an enclosed shop with inside access would be best, but it comes down to what would look the best on the property.

We don't plan to sell anytime soon, but I am from Australia and we are looking at heading back in 5yrs or so, so our daughter and us can spend some time there for a couple of years.

64coupedeluxe · May 25, 2013

Ray916MN said:
Aesthetics and usability are the things to consider in addition to cost.

If the building(s) are going to be close to a home, you have to be careful to keep the scale of the building(s) balanced with the home. Nothing like a pole barn making your home look tiny to devalue a property.

OTOH, high ceiling heights in smaller buildings result in odd proportions too, so if you want buildings with enough ceiling height for a lift, a small building can end up looking a bit funny. Too tall relative to it depth and/or width. With this in mind a single large building with a taller ceiling height can look better and be less expensive with respect to total volume than two small buildings with the savings used to pay for lifts so the extra ceiling height can be effectively used. The implicit tradeoff with a single large building is accessibility. Stacked storage or two deep parking implied in a single large building means more juggling to get buried stuff out.

FWIW

Have thought of this. Even in a larger building I would be storing cars behind each other.

64coupedeluxe · May 25, 2013

Kevin54 said:
One building that looks like an "L". That way, you can always go from one to the other without going out in the weather.

One thing you may want to do is check with your local County Auditor and see how it would affect your property taxes if it is one large building or two smaller buildings. It may make a big enough difference to come to your conclusion a little better.

We have thought about an L shaped building and are waiting on a quote. We are in Jersey so they will be screwing us with taxes any way we go! It is a set percentage on the total cost of the project, which is a joke as if I spent $50,000 on a building it certainly wouldn't increase the value of my property that much. But to those "people" it does.

64coupedeluxe · May 25, 2013

We are also toying with the idea of building a double carport coming off the side of the existing garage.

We would love to have our daily drivers under there but could also store my wifes convertible bmw and my 69 bronco under there. Then I would only need storage for a 66 GTA Fairlane, 67 Fairlane wagon and a 70 Torino Cobra.

The 70 Torino was supposed to be shipped to Australia to sell but it ended up needing an engine build etc that snowballed so I will be keeping that a few years to enjoy before shipping.

Plus having 1-2 project cars before I sell them on. The existing 2 car could store the bmw and then one side kept for kids stuff.

It is such a hard decision to know which way to jump and believe me I have searched so much I am suffering from "googleitis"

NUTTSGT · May 25, 2013

Having a nice large area, 5 acres, I think one larger building would look nicer and should be easier to sell when the time comes. It won't be a huge over bearing structure.

Ray916MN · May 25, 2013

64coupedeluxe said:
We are also toying with the idea of building a double carport coming off the side of the existing garage.

We would love to have our daily drivers under there but could also store my wifes convertible bmw and my 69 bronco under there. Then I would only need storage for a 66 GTA Fairlane, 67 Fairlane wagon and a 70 Torino Cobra.

The 70 Torino was supposed to be shipped to Australia to sell but it ended up needing an engine build etc that snowballed so I will be keeping that a few years to enjoy before shipping.

Plus having 1-2 project cars before I sell them on. The existing 2 car could store the bmw and then one side kept for kids stuff.

It is such a hard decision to know which way to jump and believe me I have searched so much I am suffering from "googleitis"

To store 4 cars you only need roughly 24x24 (576 sq. ft.) if you use two 4 post lifts. Add 1000 sq. ft. for your 2 project cars, plus space to work on a car and you only need roughly 1600 sq. ft. Build it with enough ceiling height (~14") and a layout conducive to adding more 4 post lifts and if you add 2 more 4 post lifts you end up with the ability to store 8 cars (or store 6 cars and have 2 spaces for your daily drivers) and still have about 600 sq. ft. of shop space to work on a car. Site your building so you can add a 2 car carport if you want to add more covered space economically. Go 28x64 and you get depth which is better for work space and leaves enough room for pallet racking along the walls so you have lots of storage. 4 posts lifts next to pallet racking or winches over pallet racking make it easy to use racking to store large heavy items up high to save floor space. A quick and dirty way to reduce the amount of space you need to heat or cool, would be to plan for a separator wall of pallet racking and then to attach foam board insulation to the racking to thermally block of the storage area from the workshop area.

Vertical space is cheaper than floor space. Floor space is expensive because more floor space increases your roof, ceiling and concrete floor costs as opposed to just wall costs. Additional floor space will also increase your lighting, guttering and other ancillary costs. Lower L shaped buildings might look nicer, but your construction costs are going to be much higher.

I built 24x48x14 with an eye on being able to store 4 cars and 8 motorcycles and still have 24x24 clear to work on motorcycles.

64coupedeluxe · May 25, 2013

NUTTSGT said:
Having a nice large area, 5 acres, I think one larger building would look nicer and should be easier to sell when the time comes. It won't be a huge over bearing structure.

It's just where the building would be situated. Did you see the attached google maps screen shot? It would be straight out from the end of the road/circle and main thing you see as you come into the property.

We are going to be adding some large trees in front of it though to soften the look.

64coupedeluxe · May 25, 2013

Ray916MN said:
To store 4 cars you only need roughly 24x24 (576 sq. ft.) if you use two 4 post lifts. Add 1000 sq. ft. for your 2 project cars, plus space to work on a car and you only need roughly 1600 sq. ft. Build it with enough ceiling height (~14") and a layout conducive to adding more 4 post lifts and if you add 2 more 4 post lifts you end up with the ability to store 8 cars (or store 6 cars and have 2 spaces for your daily drivers) and still have about 600 sq. ft. of shop space to work on a car. Site your building so you can add a 2 car carport if you want to add more covered space economically. Go 28x64 and you get depth which is better for work space and leaves enough room for pallet racking along the walls so you have lots of storage. 4 posts lifts next to pallet racking or winches over pallet racking make it easy to use racking to store large heavy items up high to save floor space. A quick and dirty way to reduce the amount of space you need to heat or cool, would be to plan for a separator wall of pallet racking and then to attach foam board insulation to the racking to thermally block of the storage area from the workshop area.

Vertical space is cheaper than floor space. Floor space is expensive because more floor space increases your roof, ceiling and concrete floor costs as opposed to just wall costs. Additional floor space will also increase your lighting, guttering and other ancillary costs. Lower L shaped buildings might look nicer, but your construction costs are going to be much higher.

I built 24x48x14 with an eye on being able to store 4 cars and 8 motorcycles and still have 24x24 clear to work on motorcycles.

Yeah I realize it is cheaper to go up than out, although I would only go to 12 high. I have thought of getting a couple of 4 posters for storage but feel it would be a pain to get the cars down. I also enjoy sitting down for a beer and looking at my cars/ popping the hood and looking at what I am going to tidy up/fix next.

I'm lucky in that my wife wants me to build what ever I need to be happy but it is with the compromise of needing to fit in with what we have. Otherwise I would end up with a gigantic garage!

64coupedeluxe · May 25, 2013

Thanks for all the replies guys. It is good to listen to other ideas and thoughts as sometimes it helps a light bulb to go off or reinforce current thoughts.

I appreciate the time.
Brendon.

1 large vs 2 smaller garages.

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