Tell me what you think of my garage plans....

It seems like I've done this before, but since I had to get Luke help over the last week to get these screen shots resized...I guess not. So here we go.

I've been wanting a 2nd garage since we bought our place in 1993, and it looks like this year is finally going to be the year that it happens! I've been thinking about it this whole time, so my plans are pretty well set. But I want to get your professional garage junky opinions. It's just about my last shot for changes before I start presenting plans to the township, etc.



Here's the run down. 26' deep, 36' wide, 10'h 2x4 walls, 4/12 pitch roof on the outside, scissor trusses over bays 2 & 3, storage trusses over the rest. Vapor barrier under the slab, steel reinforced throughout, and thicker cement under bays 2 &3. That's a 4 post storage lift in bay 3. The shop will have it's own 100A panel, a 220V outlet for the compressor, and gas for the hanging furnace. I know all of the finish details (exterior lighting, siding, shingles, etc).

The only thing I'm still debating is if I should use 3 8'w x 8'h doors, as drawn. I really like this look. But, as discussed in a recent post, some prefer a single 16'w to two 8'w. I'm considering a 16'w, and a 9'w. None of the vehicles coming and going from here could be considered small! This won't leave me much front wall, and I'll have to talk to the lumber store about any strength issues with that, if I go that way.

Eventually I would like to have a 2 post lift in the second bay. With 3 8'w doors, I was planning on the ones for bays 2 & 3 to have high lift tracks on them. If I put a single 16'w door over 1 & 2, I'm not sure what I'd do for a high lift over bay 2. I guess I wouldn't do anything, and just be careful?



This photo shows the scissor truss gable end that faces north. I have added 28 eight inch glass blocks to allow for some natural light, yet be secure. I have no plans for any other windows. I've thought about them for top panels in the o/h doors, but haven't priced them.

I'm seriously seeking all opinions on this plan. I'm not saying I'll agree or change them, but if there is something I haven't thought of, now is the time to uncover it! So tell me what you think of the shop plans.

Looks pretty good. But I'm not feeling the glass block. I'm not sure what I would put in its place, but maybe you could break up the long run of glass block.

Also, I prefer the workbenches/tools at the back of the garage (in front of the cars). Otherwise, you may be walking back and forth a lot.

good looking plan. i think that Suburban will be a bear to get thru an 8' door. I'd go with the 16' and 9' doors, and have a 2' wall between the doors to get a couple of bolts through the plate into the concrete. the 16' span should be no problem if you use a double 2x12 header glued and nailed with 1/2" plywood between the 2x12's. But check with your lumber guy to make sure.

I second the idea and would encourage you to go with one 16’ and 9’ door instead of three 8’ers, just for easier maneuvering cars in and out. One of my old garages is 26x38 x 12’6” ceiling with that door configuration. I have three four-post lifts and a nice work area on the side.

I would be concerned that you have not allowed enough room around your four-post lift, unless it is only used to store cars and not a working lift. Also the garage door, when it’s in the up position, along with the door tracks are going to be in the way. You may also reconsider placement of the lifts to take advantage of the height that the scissors truss provides

Where in this setup room for a Fridge?????? Personally every separate garage should have its own Fridge...small or large

DynoDave,

You may have read my post to a similair question a week or so ago.
I've currently got a building with three 7' high by 8' wide doors. With a Suburban and a Cordoba I don't think you'd like thos 8 foot wide doors. Even the my Jeep Wrangler I have to ba a little careful pulling in and out. My Dodge truck is nearly impossible to got in and out of an 8' wide door. I think the narrowest door I'd use would be a 9'.

Just my two cents.

Have fun,
Dave

Like your plans, looks as if you have put a lot of thought into them. Glass blocks is a novel idea, I may steal that idea for a later update to my shop. The 26 feet looks tight for three long vehicles. if your trusses are on 2' centers can you push out 1 more truss and go 28'? I think that 2 feet will make a lot of difference in front of those long vehicles. I need all the room I can get I also think I would put the workbench if front of the vehicles and put the storage on the left side.
Hey, it's a great plan the way it is. What do I know

Kinda is along the same lines as mine. The storage trusses I have in the middle are great, I have ALOT of junk up there and my compressor will be going up there as well. I had a 16' maximum height to work with and I wanted to be able to stack two 6' high trucks on lifts. I have scissor trusses with a 2 foot step up which kind of sneaks around the bylaws. 10' walls on the ends with 8 foot walls in the middle. The cool thing about mixing storage trusses with scissor trusses is that it gives you a little opening to the attic on the inside of the garage.

Just curious, why wouldn't you use radiant heating instead?

DynoDave, you're going about this the right way by doing a plan layout before you begin the project. Been there; done that. I still have my own garage layout sketches in my file cabinet. Good memories!

I agree with the others about the 16' and 9' doors. I also agree that there is very little room on the right hand side of that lift to do much work (e.g., doing suspension work or removing wheels on that side of the vehicle will be a chore). However, if all you're using the lift for is storage rather than service & storage, it's probably OK.

But most of all, I would be concerned about the low ceiling height (10 ft) for a 4-post lift application. I checked the specs for the two cars you plan to use in the lift bay. The Duster is 53.1" high (4.4 ft), and the Charger is 50.9" high (4.2 ft). Most 4-post lifts specify a minimum distance between the top of the lower vehicle and the top of the ramps supporting the upper vehicle to allow room for the height of the ramp rails and for the safety locking mechanisms on the posts to engage. On my Stinger lift, that distance is 6" (0.5 ft). By the time you add the height of the two cars and the minimum gap (4.4 ft + 4.2 ft + 0.5 ft = 9.1 ft), you don't have much more room available for overhead lighting or tracks for a conventional high-rise garage door, when the door is raised.

How do you plan to handle the ceiling height limitations in the lift bay?

USE 2"X6" walls!!!!!!!! or move your shop next to mine so it's cheeper for me to heat

Thanks for all the feedback guys! I appreciate you taking the time to read the post, and leave a reply with your thoughts. I'll try to answer these one at a time. FYI: I should have spoken a little about usage up front. The Suburban is a running vehicle; the old Mopars are not (save the Mopar jokes, GM guys! LOL). So the thought is...I'm restoring the Cordoba first. So it gets bay1. That way I have room around the bench side and front. Pull the running Suburban out, and I have a generous (by my shops stds.) amount of room around it to work. The cars in bay 3 on the 4 post are basically in storage. Cars from 1 and 3 will rotate as finished.

BMWPOWER - Glass block...wasn't my first answer either. I'm in a good area, but I still worry about break-ins, especially when my neighborhood full of little kids is a neighborhood full of teens in a few years. With the door(s) open, there will be lots of tempting toys inside (walls covered in tools, tool boxes full too, compressors, welders, etc.). 2) I'd think about benches along the back wall, but as you can see, each of those cars is drawn a mere foot from the o/h doors in the closed position. I don't feel I can build deep enough to comfortably accommodate benches there. More than convenience to the front of the car, I like a lot of room around my benches, and I was better able to accommodate that with the benches at the side. Just a matter of personal preference, I guess.

Snorvet - Suburban and cars too wide for 8'w door. Pretty good point. That's why I'm thinking about a 16'w and a 9'w. It would certainly **** to get one of the old cars redone, or the nice Suburban, and scrape it on the garage backing out.

Oldcarguy - Another vote for 16' and 9' wide doors. Room around the 4 post - you're right, there's not much. I guess I had envisioned it strictly as a storage tool. It will probably be pressed into repair use from time to time, but not too often. The cars going on it are non-running, future projects. So I'll have to be pretty desperate to want to push them off to put something else up. A 2 post for the middle bay someday is my plan for a working lift (hence the scissor trusses and thicker concrete for both bays 2 &3). Door track clearance - an excellent concern. Member Wile1 allowed me to check out his lift (an Aresco, the same brand I plan on buying) in his shop. He has just a touch under 10' of height IIRC, and gets 2 Darts in without damage. It's tight....but it works. With 10' studs, and bottom plate, and a couple of top plates, my actual lowest point around the edges should be 10' 4" approx. Then, the further in you go under those scissors, the better it gets. By my amateur calculations (scary), I should get about another 2 foot of clearance at the center. The drawing shows the lift only a foot off the closed door. Again, that's probably a little optimistic, but necessary to get any room up front. I may have to cheat it toward the back of the garage to take full advantage of that peak. I plan on high lift track for that door (bay 3), and for bay 2 as well (if it's a single of double door). I think you spotted all of the weak spots in my plan as I see them, and you are right about them all. Just not much more massaging I can do it.

Dink - I haven't forgotten the fridge! I'd love a full sized decorated as a tool box, or a classic '50s GM Frigidaire. But again, space becomes a concern. So I'll have to get by with the college model (I still have mine!) under the benches. Good catch though. I will spend a lot of time in there I hope, and comforts are going to be important. A nice stereo and hanging TV with cable are definitely planned. Phone, and a line for DSL and a computer too. I'll definitely bury all of that wire in the trench to the shop.

2manyGPs - Another vote for 9'w. I'll have to price these out when I have the quote updated. Thanks.

Chevyrestorer/C3 - Yes, extra depth would be nice. I think ideally I would like to go about 30 deep and 40 wide. Or even bigger. But I'm restricted by code. This is as big of a box as I can build. If I go deeper, it becomes narrower. My neighbor has a 24 deep by 30 wide in his yard. At 24 deep, we were often shimmying by the front of the car, with stuff along the wall, etc. And that's working around a '39 Chevy coupe, a '29 A, etc. Not as long as the cars I have. I currently have the Cordoba in my 22 deep attached garage, and it is VERY tight. I mean back bumper against the door tight. So compared to that and the neighbors, 26 deep seemed like an improvement. Not a dream, but an improvement. But thanks for the suggestion.

GM - Radiant heat would be great, but I can buy and install a hanging natural gas for approx. $500. I wouldn't attempt radiant myself, so it's just too much money. A friend of mine has it in his race shop up here, and it's awesome. But he also has a farm, a huge new race shop, and SPONSORS! LOL

Roadster - 10 foot wall height for 4 post. I sort rambled on about this above in my response to Oldcarguy. I'd love to go taller, but cost and code restrictions have me sort of boxed in to what I've drawn. I think I've done the math (a scary thought, since that was never my best subject) and it should all fit. I wouldn't be so confident if I had not seen Wile1's place, with the same lift and similar cars. That gave me a huge boost of confidence that it was "do-able"!

W-Cummins - Six inch wall would be nice, and I flirted with the idea. But as you can see, I've already planned usage for every inch of the place. It's as big as I can go, literally within a few feet within code. Six inch wall would eat up interior space. Besides, my house is only 2x4 walls, and I don't plan on heating the garage to the temps I do the house. A good thought though, and if budget and lot formula for sq. ft. allowed, I'd do it.

Thanks again all. These are just the sort of questions I need to be asked NOW. Walking up to me a few months from now and asking "why didn't you..." won't be too helpful! LOL

Oh, and someone asked how I was going to light the area above the lifts. I don't really know, to be honest. I had planned on some quality fluorescents for the whole shop. I guess I'll tuck those up tight, or recessed in the drywall if I can.

Keep those ideas coming.

DynoDave said:

Roadster - 10 foot wall height for 4 post. I sort rambled on about this above in my response to Oldcarguy. I'd love to go taller, but cost and code restrictions have me sort of boxed in to what I've drawn. I think I've done the math (a scary thought, since that was never my best subject) and it should all fit. I wouldn't be so confident if I had not seen Wile1's place, with the same lift and similar cars. That gave me a huge boost of confidence that it was "do-able"!

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Makes sense. Just don't forget about the spacing for the horizontal track of the garage door and the overhead lights. Also remember that you can gain a bit of clearance depending on the way you decide to park the upper car (e.g., nose out towards the front of the garage, if the car's hood is long, will give you much greater clearance from the horizontal extension of the garage door when open).

I found the following guide to be very helpful...

Good thought ROADSTER, Thanks. Yes, the Charger has a very long hood. The Duster less so, but would still benefit from sitting backwards. I guess I could keep the Duster on the bottom, and the Charger on top. This is certainly one thing that I HAVE TO GET RIGHT. Building the shop specifically to store these cars, then finding out they won't fit would be a minor disaster.

I like your plan but why are you limiting the pitch of the roof to 4-12. In my city the code for height is 15' but that is measured at the half way point between the peek and top of the wall. Which way are your truss' going to run?
Mine run front to back with 3 12" glue-lam beams spanning the whole 22' with a 18' door in the center and carry the roof load.
My old garage had a 9' door and I think that would be a minimum for easy of driving in and out.
I second not putting a bench in front of the cars, put it on the side and use a cart to work out of.

DynoDave said:

Good thought ROADSTER, Thanks. Yes, the Charger has a very long hood. The Duster less so, but would still benefit from sitting backwards. I guess I could keep the Duster on the bottom, and the Charger on top. This is certainly one thing that I HAVE TO GET RIGHT. Building the shop specifically to store these cars, then finding out they won't fit would be a minor disaster.

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A couple of more thoughts about the lift.

First, I bought the caster accessory pack with mine, just in case I wanted to move the lift in the future. That turned out to be fruitful, since I have moved the lift several times since installation, to optimize the location in relation to the garage door, the wall, and my workbench, and the posts are unbelievably heavy once the ramps are installed. So whether you get the casters or not, don't bolt down the posts! Chances are you will want to move the lift a bit after you get it installed and start using it. Paper plans and real-world practicality sometimes collide!

Second, I have an epoxy coated floor, so I got large 12"x12" rubber pads that sit underneath the posts to prevent damage to the epoxy. They work quite well, too. Something else to think about.

Hey drbill. 4/12 will match my house for one thing. I have the same restriction for height here. 15 feet. In the past I've called and been told that's to the midpoint of the truss, as you describe. But the townships website just sayd 15 feet, period. Second, the lot I'm building on has a little slope to it. So keep ing the pitch modest allows me to not need a ton of fill at the far and (though I may bring some in if I can afford it). Last, if I could, I'd build with a high ptich, and have a room above the work area. But those trusses are quite a bit more oney, and at that pitch, me roofing it myself would be out. If I REALLY had some extra cash, I'd build that second room and pat someone to do the roof for me, but that's just not in a the budget.

Thanks for the thought on the casters, Roadster. I hadn't planned on buying them, but I guess I had better. I figured it would get moved around a few times before finding a final resting spot.

A couple of thoughts to consider:

1. If you live in an area with construction going on, especially homes with basements, you should be able to get FREE fill if you need it. Stop by one of the construction sites and ask the excavator for some. They almost always have some extra and will probably just give it to you instead of hauling it to some remote site.

2. If you find room is tight in your garage, you could consider storing your Duster and Charger in my garage for 15 or 20 years. I'll even take care of them if you let me drive 'em.

I hear you about not wanting to shingle a steep roof, but my days of shingling roofs are over. For how cheap it is and 30 year shingles I'll pay some one else to do it.
My garage has a 8-12 pitch with a overhang in the front that comes to the top of my 8' high door, but I have 9' sidewalls. My yard slopes away in the back and I have at least 18" of concrete sticking up above ground and theres no way of back fiiling it. The neighbor gets to look at it not me.
I know these decisions are hard to make because you will have to live with them for as long as you have the garage.

DynoDave

I have attached a Power Point slide that shows some of my options/recommendations.

1. Place your pedestrian door on the same side of teh design as the 4-Post lift. Saves space along the wall with your workbench.

2. The pedestrian door will (by law) need to open outward -- thus saving a little bit more floor space. If you neeed the pedestrian door on hte wall you placed it on then simply flip the entire design.

3. Build a small (3’ x 5’) shed attached to the garage for the compressor. This isolates you from the noise when its running and saves even more floor space. An exterior door on the shed allows servicing.

4. I split the area you designated as Engine Stand and Tool Boxes into two separate areas. The engine lift and stand will only be used infrequently. They can stay in the corner. The tool box(es), however, need to be closer to the workbench and the open bays.

5. By splitting the tool box area from the engine stand/lift area, I was able to slide the storage cabinets and shelves to the center of the rear wall – better overall accessability and away from the lift proving more space to open the doors

6. By moving the pedestrian door to the opposite wall, you can slide your workbench down to abut the wall with the vehicle doors. This provides a space for a welding table – you mentioned welding but didn’t show a work space dedicated to it. You’ll need 220 V and a vent fan in the area. If your heater is 220V, this may save in wiring costs be co-locating them together

8. I moved the vise to the end of the workbench so it can do double-duty on the welding table

9. All of these ideas provide the space for the refrigerator. (It was a long road to get there but worth the trip )

10. I also sketched in where you’d be storing the floor cleaning supplies, the hat and coat rack, and the power switches (very small print).

Hope some of these ideas help ya.

Craig

I would go with a single 9' door and a 18' double door.

Just as the 8' door being tight, so is a 16' with 2 cars. Especially a suburban..

Craig,

Thanks for doing all that work. I apprecaite your efforts. I thought the doors by law had to open IN, so nothing could block the door from opening (on the outside) and you couldn't be trapped inside as a result. I'll have to double check that, but all the doors around here open in. As shed behind the shop to a compessor is a definate possibility. I'll work with that idea once the structure is done, the final inspection passed, and the privacy fence is up! You are right about the frequency of use of the engine stand, too.

Donzi4me - Another vote for larger doors. Looks like I'll definately go 9' wide on the single. I'll have to sketch and price the 16' and 18' options.

I thought the doors by law had to open IN, so nothing could block the door from opening (on the outside) and you couldn't be trapped inside as a result

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I had my side door installed to open out. Most towns don't care about the man door on a garage because you can't get trapped when you have an opening overhead door or two or three.....

I installed my 36" door to open into the building. I plan on putting a screen door on the outside this spring for air circulation without letting insects in. If you have a door open out how could you ever put a screen or storm door on it?


Spence

Dave, no problem here with code having the door open outward. Look at every commercial building you go in or out of, the doors always open out. This is for saftey. Just make sure the door has hinges that have pins that are not removable. I had 2 thoughts when I did this. First was my dinky garage needed all the space inside and Second was theft prevention. If you try and kick it in you have to bust the whole jamb out and aren't relying on the door latch/dead bolt.

I didnt check the code when I did my garage, But a door opening out will have the hinges on the outside - very easy target for a break in - just pop the pin on the hinges

Popping the pins will not drop the door

I have hung commercial doors for the last five years. The hinge geometry will prohibit the door from opening when locked and pins pulled. This is my emergance from lurking.

sasquatchpa said:

I have hung commercial doors for the last five years. The hinge geometry will prohibit the door from opening when locked and pins pulled. This is my emergance from lurking.

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Thanks for coming out of the woods to answer this question, sasquatchpa!

The bench vice should be located at the corner of the bench, I assume the vice will be of the swivel type? Also, I think the main bench should run along the length of the back wall, meaning directly in front of the vehicles assuming they are pulled nose first into the garage.