what are differences in brands?

[sprackydoo]

As far as Craftsman, Mac, Snap-on etc... Are there any major differences between their tools? Are they made out of different grades of steel, or do they have different ergonomics? Or do people buy them cuz they're shiny and expensive and like to tell people they have them lol?

I own all craftsman as of now.

[DynoDave]

My tools are a total mix of brands. Majority Craftsman. I'll be honset, I haven't had significant problems with ANY of them. Some of the older import tools I have are of marginal quality, but were purchased to be used a half dozen times in my life, and even they are good enough for what they are for.

But I don't have to make my living with them. If I did, I'd buy from a major name like Snap On or MAC. They offer ordering and delivery right to your stall, and warranty right at your stall if needed, financing, and a lot of specialty tools you can't get from a Sears.

[iiibdsiil]

If you are doing it everyday, you will see a need for snap on. If you aren't, then the Craftsman should be fine for you. Craftsman is pretty good quality, and I wouldn't recommend anything less. Seems like the japansese/chinese/whatever stuff flexes way to easily. Stanley makes good tools too. They are the parent company to Mac, but don't expect Mac quality from the normal Stanley line.

Snap on stuff is, in my opinion, the best. I don't like Mac stuff much, and Matco doesn't seem that great. I get 50% off a lot of Matco stuff, and still buy Snap on, either new or off Ebay, because the quality, to me, is that much better.

I used to do this everyday, now I don't. My dad bought a lift for his house, and I have all my snap on stuff at my warehouse. He tells me to come over all the time to use the lift, and I tell him I will work on the floor with good tools.

[C_F]

I've had 90% Craftsman stuff all my life & other than occasionally breaking a screwdriver or socket, no complaints.
Lately however, I've noticed Craftsman's quality slipping a little...especially in the ratchet department, anyone else noticed that?
I finally broke my 1/2" drive ratchet a couple months ago & took it in to swap for a new one. The forward/reverse levers on the new ones look like they're almost plastic...and it ratchet's more clunky.

[IMXCITD]

I have mostly craftsman but would really like to have more snapon if I had the chance. I am tired of the service and Sears!

[Da Bull]

Here's something that you might be interested in:
Someone wrote [in part]:

... but I never could figure out who makes the [Craftsman] hand tools.

To which someone else replied:

I'm not the final word on tools by any means, but since I work in the business, I've learned a little bit about it. Okay, here's more than you ever wanted to know.

Lowes now (as of earlier this year) is selling a line of Mechanics Tools called Kobalt which is made by Snap-On. They are good tools.

Home Depot's Husky brand is made by Stanley Mechanics Tools, a division of the Stanley Works. Husky are also good tools and have a good lifetime warranty (they'll even replace your broken Craftsman with an equivalent Husky).

Until 1994 or so, Stanley also made Sears Craftsman tools. Sears Craftsman is now made by Danaher Tools. They beat out Stanley on the contract over price. Danaher also manufactures MatCo Tools, the third largest player in the Mobile Automotive industry (behind MAC and Snap-On). Odds are, if you own any Craftsman tools that are older than about five years ago, they were made by Stanley in plants in Dallas, Texas, Witchita Falls, Texas, and Sabina, Ohio.

Stanley also owns MAC Tools and manufactures MAC tools in the same plants. Now here's the kicker: MAC Tools, Proto Tools (a very expensive industrial brand), Husky Tools, and, (prior to five or so years ago) Craftsman Tools are all made from the same forgings in the same plants. Proto is unique because it goes through addtional testing and certification because it is used by NASA, the military, and industrial customers (including General Motors).

There are three MAJOR players in the USA mechanics tool business: Stanley, Danaher, and Snap-On. Stanley and Danaher (almost identical in sales revenue at about $28 billion each) are the biggest followed by Snap-On. Each of these three manufacture and sell tools under a variety of brands (there are many other brands that Stanley makes that I haven't even named). The quality between these three manufacturers is roughly the same. I know its a bit of a let-down to hear that, but its a simple fact.

There are a hand full of other minor players (Vermont American, etc) and an endless list of Taiwanese import tool companies (some of which Stanley own as well as Danaher to serve the lower end consumer import brands at WalMart, etc). How do I know all of this? I work for Stanley Mechanics Tools, specifically with the Proto Industrial brand. I personally do not think that MAC, MatCo, or Snap-On branded tools are worth the extra markup since they use the same forgings and manufacturing processes that make Husky and Kobalt and pre-1994 Craftsman. Where you need to pay attention are things like ratchets and torque wrenches. There are different specifications of ratchets and you do pay for the difference. Some mechanics require a finer, more precise ratcheting mechanism than guys like me who just bang around in the garage on the weekends.

By the way, Metwrench is basically considered a "gimick" infomercial tool brand that is not considered as a serious competitor to Danaher, Snap-On, or Stanley. Then again, IBM once didn't see Microsoft as a serious force in the personal computer business. Hmmmm....

Then there was this discourse on FACOM brand tools:

> FACOM has been around forever. French company, says "American" in the name
> though I forget the whole acronym.

FACOM is Franco-Americaine de Construction d'Outillage Mecanique. French for "French-American Mechanical Tool Manufacturing". Got points in my french class for that.

> It's now one of the largest tool conglomerates in Europe.
>
> SK, I think, is an American company that recently has had a large part of
> its stock purchased by FACOM.

FACOM owns S-K outright. You'll notice (if you look through the catalogs from preceeding years) that the tools are becoming more and more alike. The S-K "pro" screwdrivers are now FACOM ergotwist screwdrivers. The "tuff1" ratchets are S-K pro ratchet handles avec FACOM innards. FACOM's ratcheting flare wrench now has S-K stamped on the side of it. I don't like it because we could get FACOM tools from S-K dealers for over 10 years, but now they're getting more and more reluctant to give us FACOM stuff, they'd rather sell S-K stuff. Which is why you get S-K catalogs instead of FACOM. If you specifically request (demand) a FACOM catalog, you get their _american_ catalog, which is abbreviated, along with a note to contact Griot's Garage. I've asked a French friend to get me a French market FACOM catalog, as they have all the good stuff that hasn't yet been absorbed into the S-K line. Ultimate Garage is a FACOM dealer as well as Griots, and I've been told (by richard?) they've got a catalog, dunno if it's FACOM's, but I'll order something and find out.

I was also wondering what the deal was with the S-K foundry? Presumably they still make some stuff stateside? No? I know there are others not mentioned, Cornwell has a foundry in Ohio, I think?

I'd kinda doubt that Williams uses the _exact_ same dies for Koalt and Snap-On. I compared the Kobalt combo wrench to one of my Snap-Ons, and they aren't the same. The Kobalt handle is pretty much rectangular in cross-section, and really does hurt your hand when you pull hard. The Snap-On is more rounded. As well, the Kobalt is visibly looser on the fastener. Maybe these are Snap-On rejects? Can't explain the handle differences, though. The breaker bars seem to share the same grip, though, it just seems the kobalt doesn't have those nifty machined indentations at the base.

I know Stanley owns Mac and Blackhawk (didn't know about Husky), but the Blackhawk stuff doesn't seem similar to the Mac stuff. These look awfully different to be from the same dies, shape wise. So the price difference is different steel in the better tools? Surely they can't be charging Mac prices for better plated Blackhawk stuff?

> FACOM also owns (large parts of) USAG (Italian?) and Beissbarth...

didn't know this. I'd like to find some USAG tools, just to try them.

[sprackydoo]

Why do you guys say you'd only buy Snap-on if you used them everyday?

[iiibdsiil]

Because of the quality. The way it fits in your hand. The wrenches are a hair thinner, which makes all the difference in the world. The ratchets are too comfy in your hand. The open end of the wrenches doesn't expand like cheap wrenches.

If you work where you need steel toed shoes, you typically don't buy from walmart, because the more comfy shoes at the very minimum make your work day better just with comfort. More or less the same idea, just a poor analogy.

[jstbecauz]

Using hand tools for the last 18 years, the only thing that I can say about hand tools and tool boxes is that Snap-On Tools are by far the best made, most comfortable, and most accomodating tools and boxes on the market, by far. Snap-On makes most of their tools in house, that is not to say that they dont make aftermarket tool lines as well. They have a lower line branded Blue-Point which is, to the unsuspecting, a Snap-On cast. Their tool boxes are far superior as well, and are made in their own plant. I probably get about a 30% off catalog price for my Snap-On Tools, but there was a time when I didn't and I still bought them. They are really worth the money if you use them all day, every day.

[C_F]

Originally Posted by Da Bull

Here's something that you might be interested in:

Well, that explains why my new Craftsman ratchet doesn't seem to be as good as before.

Nice find, by the way.

[bmwpower]

How does one go about getting a discount on Snap On stuff?

FYI, I've seen some metric Craftsman wrenches that claimed they were the same size as the fastener...they seemed like the size was a hair off. BTW, these were the Craftman Professional fully polished wrenches.

I used a Snap On wrench on the same fastener and I could feel the difference - much more snug as if the Snap On stuff was made to more exacting standards.

I have a variety of tools from all different manufacturers. I have my favorites that I always reach for, though

[iiibdsiil]

One way to get the discount is to go to school to get ASE certified. The training center will have the ability to let you get the discount.

[kgwld1]

My snap on guy gives me a good discount but I have bought a ton too.


Kevin

[jstbecauz]

Tell me what you want and I will get a price for you. My tool payment is $205 per week so I am in a pretty commanding position when I ask for tools.

[Mister Moose]

Originally Posted by Da Bull

Until 1994 or so, Stanley also made Sears Craftsman tools. Sears Craftsman is now made by Danaher Tools. They beat out Stanley on the contract over price. Danaher also manufactures MatCo Tools, the third largest player in the Mobile Automotive industry (behind MAC and Snap-On). Odds are, if you own any Craftsman tools that are older than about five years ago, they were made by Stanley in plants in Dallas, Texas, Witchita Falls, Texas, and Sabina, Ohio.

That explains an experience a number of years ago, pre 1994.

I was getting a 300' chain regalvanized at Rex Forge, in New Britain CT. Home of Stanley, in case you aren't familiar. While waiting for them to find and load up my order, I walked around the floor a little bit. Nearby was a huge drop hammer forge, and out of it was coming these 12"-ish handle shaped things with round holes in the elongated widened ends. It took a few minutes... they looked vaguely familiar. Then I got it. They were pre-chrome, pre inscribed, pre assembled Craftsman 1/2" ratchet handles of the day. My guess is those large tool companies farm out a lot of the work. Your Stanley tool is not always made by Stanley. Not that that's necessarilly a bad thing....

[lbgradwell]

I think this must be the record for a "dead thread bump"!

[TwoInch]

only seven years? someone can do better than that...

[Kevin54]

Originally Posted by lbgradwell

I think this must be the record for a "dead thread bump"!

Originally Posted by TwoInch

only seven years? someone can do better than that...

Not much better. I think the site was started in '05.

[TwoInch]

good call! ive only been here a couple months. whoops!