Proper use and methods: Harmonic Balancer puller

[HoosierBuddy]

Hey guys,

So yesterday, I started in on my old mustang changing the timing cover. To do this, the harmonic balancer has to come off the crank shaft. This is a high-reving stroker engine, so I've got one of those high-dollar SFI rated harmonic balancers that is press-fit on the end of the crank.

It's super hard to get off. I have to remove the radiator, fan, belts, alternator, a/c compressor, p/s pump and all the brackets to get room to work. Then I have to heat the **** out of the balancer with a propane torch and THEN get started cranking the balancer off with the balancer puller.

The way it works is it has 1 bolt that presses against the center balancer bolt and it has 3 smaller bolts that thread into the pulley-mounting holes on the balancer. In the past, I've always just cranked away on the main center bolt to pull the balancer off...but yesterday I noticed it seemed to be A LOT easier to back the smaller bolts out, get everything tight, and then use the smaller 3 bolts one at a time to pull the balancer off (moving around in a circle a little at a time).

What do you guys think? Is there a prefered method to using one of these tools? I'm honestly thinking of taking a lathe to the balancer before I reinstal it. I mean....it's a BEAR to get off and even worse to get back on. I'm a big-strong man, and I was flat out worn out by the time I got that thing off...and there was smoke rolling off the timing cover from all the heat I used (propane torch) on the balancer hub to even get it to budge. Jeeze...gots to be an easier way!

Phil

 

[madison069]

If there is paint on the ID of the balance then get it off. Apply a thin coat of high temp grease and put some on the shaft before reinstalling it all.

Heating up the balancer is a big no-no as it can damage rubbers and such if you plan to reuse the balancer.

Also be sure your key is good and not burred. A proper puller will make the job a breeze, a unit from HF can be used but it's not as easy as a good designed puller is.

Also you using the smaller bolt to pull it off tells me the puller was not properly installed and the puller needs to be really close to parrallel to the balancer to pull it straight off and not at a angle.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

No paint there. From the installation instructions:

"Step 11: Immerse the damper in boiling water for 15 minutes. This will expand the hub of the damper to
make installation easier."

That's what I've done to put it on...but I can't immerse the engine in boiling water to get it off!

Phil

 

[srmofo]

Those small bolts and threads don't have nearly the strength of the center. The reason its easier to get off its because the balancer was angled.

 

[mayhemman]

i agree with the above. the puller must be as straight as one can get it. you may have to measure to get it just right. usually eyeballed is good, but some situations its hard to get a good eye on it.

greasing the screw helps, alsong with using a large enough wrench for leverage. using a impact can also work if you have room,just use short bursts if you want to be careful.

 

[rsanter]

Often with the aftermarket ballancers they are a tighter fit than the original

Do not use the smaller bolts to do the pulling as you just wear the threads and you kick the ballancers at an angle.

Use the center puller screw as it is intended.
Also if you are using a chineese or cheap puller they do not work as well or as smooth on the tougher applications. A quality puller has much better threads and better materials

Before you reinstall you will want to run. A stone over the crank snout to take care of any burs and also on the inside of the hub

Do not use heat on a ballancer.....

Bob

 

[kmacht]

Heating the balancer to put it on works because the balancer expands with heat while the crank stays cold. If you heat the balancer up while it is attached to the crank then both will warm up and expand. You won't gain much unless they are significantly different materials with different rates of expansion.

Keith

 

[jonb347]

ya you should never ever have to use heat to get a balancer off. a puller with three bolts is the way to go.

 

[bobcatdan]

If you heated that balancer, I would consider it junk. On a high reving engine with a lot of dollars around it, I would not trust it at all. One trick, if you have room. as you tighten the center forcing screw, stop and give it a coulpe whacks with a hammer. Don't beat on it, just a few good wraps. Tighten some more and repeat.

 

[Tig Master]

You need a real puller .
They are supposed to be a tight fit not slide on.This tool also installs them.

http://store.boxwrench.net/Proform-Harmonic-Balancer-Damper-Installation-Removal-Tool_p_111.html

 

[srmofo]

1 more tip.

Debur and break the corner of the crank snout and inner hub. Dont bevel them, Just knock the corner off with sharp small round file.

make sure the small bolts are extended an equal distance from the hub, and like mentioned above a few taps never hurt anything.

 

[sfckiddo]

heating a balancer must do wonders for the timing cover seal

 

[volaredon]

a propane bottle torch will certainly be enough to burn out the rubber ring on a balancer but nowhere enough to put serious heat on anything with a press fit to help install/removal; need oxyfuel for that to be a factor

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

FluidampR had to be HONED to fit

 

[PatJ800]

I agree with all others that say don't heat the balancer. Yes the instructions say to heat in boiling water but the reason they do that is because it is very hard (almost impossible) to get it above 212f like that. With a torch you probably ruined it. Also heat in water to get on because they don't want you pounding it on.

I will also second the fact that all Chinese pullers **** in general. A harbor freight HB puller has a hard time pulling a steering wheel without galling let alone an aftermarket balancer. Get a good or at least decent puller and lube the center screw and go at it. I bet the puller you rent from Autozone would beat the HF.

I have to admit I am not familiar with SB Fords, but you say "it has 1 bolt that presses against the center balancer bolt." On Chevys (except very early small blocks before like 1958 or so) you remove the balancer bolt and put the puller cone in the hole to pull. You aren't trying to pull against the center bolt are you? Not trying to insult or anything just trying to make sure we aren't all missing something obvious. Balancers, even good aftermarket units, shouldn't be that hard to pull that you need to heat the thing "until smoke is rolling off."

 

[Jeeper]

Crazy question... you did remove the washer under the harmonic balancer bolt, right? i had a friend that forgot, almost ripped apart the puller. many times its rtv'd in there.

 

[Outlawmws]

I'm with the 'make sure the puller is on straight" crowd, and also, make sure the center bolt's threads are well lubed with high pressure lubricant, (I'm thinking gear oil here...)

 

[oldtools]

I agree that a torch should never be used. There is a very good chance the rubber is damaged so the crankshaft pulley (harmonic balancer) is no longer good. If the harmonic balancer is bad, the engine can shake itself to pieces. You should also turn the pressure screw and not the 3 small bolts. Make sure the pressure screw is not loading on the crankshaft thread.

Just wondering if you forget to install the anti-rotation key (woodruff key) between the harmonic balancer and the crankshaft. If yes, the relative motion between the two parts can cause them to be welded together.

 

[buening]

All excellent advice. Definitely make sure the puller is parallel with the face of the damper. Grease the threads on the puller center bolt and use an impact in short bursts. A little grease on the snout when the dampner is installed wouldn't hurt either for removal, but I use an impact for removal as well. I too have a quality dampner on my sbf and without an impact it is a losing battle.

 

[chevy.stroker]

Any idea on the brand of balancer? Although I dislike the idea of heat if it is a very nice balancer you can probably rebuild it (e.g. replace the rubber o-rings in it).

 

[oldtools]

Any idea on the brand of balancer? Although I dislike the idea of heat if it is a very nice balancer you can probably rebuild it (e.g. replace the rubber o-rings in it).

It is not an o-ring. It is usually a layer of rubber sandwich in between the harmonic balancer (it is made of two pieces bonded together by the rubber layer). I doubt it can be repaired. The rubber layer will eventually crack due to the mechanical and thermal cyclic loadings from the engine (chemical can also damage the rubber). It would be wise to inspect the harmonic balancer once a while and if there is large deep crack in the rubber (or sign of serious deteriation), it might be time to replace the harmonic balancer. Like any other parts, they don't last forever.

I heard some aftermarket harmonic balancer for racing does not have the rubber layer to reduce weight so to maximize engine power for racing. The racer unknowing or knowing willing to take the risk.

 

[srmofo]

It is not an o-ring. It is usually a layer of rubber sandwich in between the harmonic balancer (it is made of two pieces bonded together by the rubber layer). I doubt it can be repaired. The rubber layer will eventually crack due to the mechanical and thermal cyclic loadings from the engine (chemical can also damage the rubber). It would be wise to inspect the harmonic balancer once a while and if there is large deep crack in the rubber (or sign of serious deteriation), it might be time to replace the harmonic balancer. Like any other parts, they don't last forever.

I heard some aftermarket harmonic balancer for racing does not have the rubber layer to reduce weight so to maximize engine power for racing. The racer unknowing or knowing willing to take the risk.

When you get to that level where you are trying to squeak every last ounce of power from an engine, you usually rebuild the engine long before the lack of dampening the harmonics has a chance to destroy it.

Where people go wrong is throwing those *lightweight* pulleys on basically stock everyday drivers. They tend to eat the bearings and cause serious engine damage in an otherwise low power reliable engine.

 

[buening]

It depends on the manufacturer of the dampner whether or not it uses the rubber layer. Fluidampr, from what I recall, uses silicone fluid and a rubber o-ring for sealing. Most serious engine builders won't use Fluidampr though, mostly ATI or Romac (which use the rubber layer IIRC)

 

[chevy.stroker]

Some hi-performance dampers can be rebuilt. It is why I asked for the brand, and yes it is an o-ring.

http://www.atiracing.com/products/dampers/damperparts/index.htm

Other expensive dampers can be rebuilt, instead of being replaced:

http://www.74tr6.com/damper.htm

http://damperdudenz.tripod.com/#photo1463743

 

[JASTECH]

I have used ATI, Moroso ect. dampeners in the past on close to 500cu.in. Charger R/T (miss it), Rat's ect. but Never torched them to get them on/off. For safety have that balancer checked or replace it, then buy the proper tools for the job.

 

[Steinmetz]

Hey guys,

So yesterday, I started in on my old mustang changing the timing cover. To do this, the harmonic balancer has to come off the crank shaft. This is a high-reving stroker engine, so I've got one of those high-dollar SFI rated harmonic balancers that is press-fit on the end of the crank.

It's super hard to get off. I have to remove the radiator, fan, belts, alternator, a/c compressor, p/s pump and all the brackets to get room to work. Then I have to heat the **** out of the balancer with a propane torch and THEN get started cranking the balancer off with the balancer puller.

The way it works is it has 1 bolt that presses against the center balancer bolt and it has 3 smaller bolts that thread into the pulley-mounting holes on the balancer. In the past, I've always just cranked away on the main center bolt to pull the balancer off...but yesterday I noticed it seemed to be A LOT easier to back the smaller bolts out, get everything tight, and then use the smaller 3 bolts one at a time to pull the balancer off (moving around in a circle a little at a time).

What do you guys think? Is there a prefered method to using one of these tools? I'm honestly thinking of taking a lathe to the balancer before I reinstal it. I mean....it's a BEAR to get off and even worse to get back on. I'm a big-strong man, and I was flat out worn out by the time I got that thing off...and there was smoke rolling off the timing cover from all the heat I used (propane torch) on the balancer hub to even get it to budge. Jeeze...gots to be an easier way!

Phil

Ouch! The harmonic balancer includes an elastomeric element to provide some torsional damping to the crankshaft/connecting rod/piston assembly. Don't "heat the **** out of it" with a torch.

 

[oldtools]

Some hi-performance dampers can be rebuilt. It is why I asked for the brand, and yes it is an o-ring.

http://www.atiracing.com/products/dampers/damperparts/index.htm

Other expensive dampers can be rebuilt, instead of being replaced:

http://www.74tr6.com/damper.htm

http://damperdudenz.tripod.com/#photo1463743

I guess I am not too familiar with all those aftermarket balancer that use different design like using o-ring. When I say not repairable, I mean not repairable by DYIer/mechanic. I personally would not trust a small company to repair the balancer. I don't know what quality of rubber and bonding agent they use. I would just buy a new one from a reputable company like Gates. That just me though.

 

[tomshep]

All good comments.

From your description it sound like you are using the three bolts to pull the balancer. Those bolts should be threaded into the balancer so the threads are fully engaged. The "pulling" should be done with the center bolt. Make sure you put a lubricant like grease on the bolt as it goes through the pull and the foot that goes on the end of the puller where it sits on the harmonic balancer bolt.

I have never had a problem removing a balancer. Heat is bad.

Tom